Sean Meighan
Welcome => What new effects you would like to see => Topic started by: jeffl on July 26, 2015, 09:47:14 AM
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Just a simple chase. You choose maybe choose the effect to chase like a on, fade up, fade down. Then maybe have the ability to drag it back and forth to increase the time. I know there are other options that are very powerful but all I want is simple control. :)
Thanks
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+1 !
Last year in LOR I ended up making a type of "Dumb Strip" model (in LOR). From Xlights though I did use the copy and paste function that worked well. But the way I had it setup in LOR, it was so I could transfer over all of my incan light chases from my mega tree. Many I worked really hard on timing and just didn't care for any "effects" on the tree but a simple chase or such. Worked... but with several exceptions. Having a simple chase would DEFINITELY clean up parts of my sequences from last year! Several that I really won't have time to "redo" with the xlights effects.
So chases would be great!
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What is wrong with single strand, spirals, and bars? They all work fine for chases.
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Yeah I really don't know what a simple chase means. What should it chase across? Are we talking groups of A/C channels? Nodes in a single model? Nothing is simple cause every one of you would probably want that simple chase to work different. How wide, how tall, how much space in between, how many colors, which direction, what rate, fade in, fade out, fade in the middle. And I think all of that can be accomplished with the SingleStrand effect. Once you learn what it does I'd say its pretty simple. And if you are talking about a chase across multiple models with the On effect you can already do that. Just drag select a column of cells and hit the "o" key to drop On effects on every model then alt-grab the edge of the group and drag out a chase. You just gotta hang out on our forum and facebook and you'll learn to be a pro at it.
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Yeah I really don't know what a simple chase means. What should it chase across? Are we talking groups of A/C channels? Nodes in a single model? Nothing is simple cause every one of you would probably want that simple chase to work different. How wide, how tall, how much space in between, how many colors, which direction, what rate, fade in, fade out, fade in the middle. And I think all of that can be accomplished with the SingleStrand effect. Once you learn what it does I'd say its pretty simple. And if you are talking about a chase across multiple models with the On effect you can already do that. Just drag select a column of cells and hit the "o" key to drop On effects on every model then alt-grab the edge of the group and drag out a chase. You just gotta hang out on our forum and facebook and you'll learn to be a pro at it.
Where is the like button :)
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Too many places to keep up with!!!! ;-)
Ok. Cool feature. But not quite doing what I would expect it to do. So I put some timing marks down at 1/2 sec increments. I selected all the columns in my 24 string model in 0.0 to .5 . Turned them on RED by hitting the "o" key (cool shortcut). I went down to 24th string and grabbed the right grab bar. They shifted over (another cool feature). Took them out to 5 seconds. This is where I would like to see something a little different. It would shove the end string (24) past the 5 second mark. Yeah. I could go and delete it, but that kind of lessens the speed of it or the steepness of it (?). In other words, in LOR I could tell it, do a chase between this timing mark and that one. It would adjust the chase or duration of that string being turned on to the timing parms. In other words, it may not be on for that whole timing mark. This is not the best video, but it is one I did before the pixel tree that had some pretty specific chases;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4rLjYsDCSU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4rLjYsDCSU)
Now with the above example, it left the first 6 strings in place and did not move them. Even when I tried to move them out to 10 seconds... it did not move them.
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Robert B
I enjoyed watching your sequences online last year. There are 10+ ways to get similar effects with Nutcracker, each having their own pros and cons.
For your 24 column string model, I would create a "Model Group". From there I would learn the Morph effect and apply the effect to the model group instead of each strand. By using the stagger option in morph, you end up with a chase like look because the effect starts just a little bit "staggered" just as a chase does. Different term for the same output. With morph you'll be able to set skips. You can skip every other strand and have the strands light up in a chase like pattern left to right while at the same time, the chase is starting right to left on the opposite set of strands.
You can also apply the fan or pinwheel to that model group. I would move the Y point to the top (far end) of your model and see what effects you can get.
By apply these effects to the model group the simplicity becomes apparent once you test.
Cheers,
Steve
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Cool Steve,
I will have to give this a try.
Thanks!
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I think the confusion is how people maybe think with a model vs a single node. I'm just wanting to select x number of nodes (cells) top to bottom, hit o for ramp down and then some other key for a chase. I tried the morph and couldn't get it to work. I watched a 20 minute video on how to use it and still didn't get it. I also tried the alt drag but most times I couldn't get it to drag. I'm going to keep trying though. I have too many RGB nodes to leave them dark.
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The main problem is everyone learned how to sequence using nodes and then now are trying to apply those same principles when they have 1000's of nodes and it's not realistic to sequence that way anymore. If you sequence at the node level then your sequences will never scale as you make model changes in your display. You really need to learn to sequence at the model level.
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Gil has hit the nail on the head. I too have to "embrace" the models vs nodes thinking....
Thanks for that recommendation!! I am currently trying to setup some little chases timed to specific pieces of music and this will help me in that quest. I will back away from individual (on/off one color AC) mini trees and go "up to" model groups of mini trees.... We are ALL learning how to capitalize on the VAST amount of things XL/NC can do for us!!!
THANKS AGAIN to Gil, Dan, Sean for what you are doing with this AWESOME software!!
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One thing that can be confusing is if you use model groups because the internal model defined to hold the group is usually larger than the group so effects don't always react the way you expect. For instance if you make a group containing models that are all on the right side of the layout screen and then put a morph sweeping right you will not see the morph until it gets 50% of the way across because it's moving across the internal representation. You can fix that by moving the starting X position over until it starts right away but you gotta understand how it works to know what to do. I really don't like the way that's working so we've discussed having other options when creating the model groups. As usual the issue is once we put something out there we usually have to maintain backwards compatibility.
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I think that was my issue. I had a custom model of a candy cane with 25 single nodes and was trying to make the them chase up and down.
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A custom model should be fine. Just make sure you define the size so there's no extra blank space at the edges.
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Gil--would the method you described above work for a set of AC minitrees? I have a model group of six minitrees and I have set the morph effect but not really getting any movement... So I tried a pinwheel--varied a bunch of parameters and got what I wanted. Is that the best way to go in this case?
Edit--I tried "twinkle"--even better than pinwheel for what I am trying to do. Not a chase, but I am trying to "catch" really fast beats and the twinkle effect is even better than I was originally trying to do.
Thanks!!!!!
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I guess unless I do a video no one will understand what I mean. I have a candy cane group in the lower left corner or my display. I placed an upwards moving morph on the cane group. When you watch the morph repeat in the preview there is a huge delay from when it ends to when it starts. That's because the morph is traveling across the virtual representation of the model group which is like 6 times taller than the models. I had to limit the Y travel to 16% to get it to repeat immediately. If I place a Fan effect in the center it won't even show up on the cane group unless I make the outside radius really large. A model group is the size of the entire layout screen.
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Here is an explanation of how effects are generated when applied to a WHM or Model Group.
http://tinyurl.com/pnnfb7p (http://tinyurl.com/pnnfb7p)
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Here's the simpliest way I can show it. Inside the blue box is my Candy Cane group. This picture shows what would be happening inside the program when you drop a Fan effect on top of that group. The effect is not going to be centered on the group unless you change the X/Y positioning. You have to imagine this for all effects you drop on a group. Effects that sweep the entire model usually aren't an issue because they will hit the nodes but like in this photo that Fan will never hit any the nodes in that model unless you make the outside radius of the fan super big.
(http://www.threebuttes.com/Extras/Fan.jpg)
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Now I know what "grid size" is good for in the group dialog
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To be honest I'd really like us to add an option where when I define my candy cane group its restricted to the boundaries shown in that blue box. I think that's what everyone expects and is the source of most of the confusion. So I've mainly been trying to explain how it works but not saying I like how it works. If I want my candy canes to be represented in relation to the whole page I'd group them with everything on the page but when it's just them I expect the bounding box to be the limits of where they sit. To me it really doesn't make sense to do otherwise but now its out there and people have sequenced with that method so we are stuck with it.
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To be honest I'd really like us to add an option where when I define my candy cane group its restricted to the boundaries shown in that blue box. I think that's what everyone expects and is the source of most of the confusion. So I've mainly been trying to explain how it works but not saying I like how it works. If I want my candy canes to be represented in relation to the whole page I'd group them with everything on the page but when it's just them I expect the bounding box to be the limits of where they sit. To me it really doesn't make sense to do otherwise but now its out there and people have sequenced with that method so we are stuck with it.
agree, so is there a way to add a parameter checkbox that allows us to say just apply to elements versus the grid?
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I've been experimenting with the group layout mode settings. It's definitely got some potential. I think this is what you're looking for.
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Yeah I tried those briefly during the Expo but didn't figure out exactly what they do.
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Well it appears changing the grid size still leaves the effect to render from the center of the display, so models on the edge will get the show edges of the effect where models in the center will get the center of the effect.
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My interpretation was changing the grid size didn't change the fact that it still covers the whole screen it just changes the resample size. So if you have a smaller grid two nodes might fall into the same bucket so to speak.
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Picture's worth a 1000 words!!!! Thanks to all who responded to this one.
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Just added a "Minimal Grid" option to the group type which will make the grid that is used just over the bounding box of the models that are selected for that group. That should make some of the effects easier to use on the groups.
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Just added a "Minimal Grid" option to the group type which will make the grid that is used just over the bounding box of the models that are selected for that group. That should make some of the effects easier to use on the groups.
+1
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Just added a "Minimal Grid" option to the group type which will make the grid that is used just over the bounding box of the models that are selected for that group. That should make some of the effects easier to use on the groups.
Wonderful !!
Which effects would these particularly apply to ?
What I am trying to ask is something along the lines that if I am going to drop a {morph/xxx/yyy/zzz} effect at the group level , then ensure that the minimal grid is set to "nnnn/new value" (ie adjust and try out as required). For other effects, the impact is less/minimal.
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I just tried "Alt-dragging" a set of ON effects to create a chase.
While it worked, just like the video, I had two problems.
1. My model has 23 nodes (it is a non-pixel Marty Fan) and I could only work with the first 11 nodes or the last 12 nodes, but not all 23. Wouldn't scroll down to select more nodes.
2. If I "Alt-drag" too far (past my desired end point), it wouldn't let me go backwards.
Is this normal? Using latest version 4.1.13
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I just tried "Alt-dragging" a set of ON effects to create a chase.
While it worked, just like the video, I had two problems.
1. My model has 23 nodes (it is a non-pixel Marty Fan) and I could only work with the first 11 nodes or the last 12 nodes, but not all 23. Wouldn't scroll down to select more nodes.
2. If I "Alt-drag" too far (past my desired end point), it wouldn't let me go backwards.
Is this normal? Using latest version 4.1.13
Didn't try the backwards thing... but the #1 did for me as well.
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The alt-drag doesn't work for me (almost never). As I drag over it sit, then sometimes it moves. Usually once I drag once I can't get it to move again. At first I thought it was my machine but it sits idle during the process. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if it's just a windows thing.
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If you set your effect size to the smallest timing mark size in the sequence ie 20/50/100MS, then you can't drag/stagger the effects.
Try placing effects on a timing mark that is 1 second long and then drag it for the stagger and it will work.
-Steve
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Currently the alt-drag won't move until you pull it far enough that every effect you are pulling has at least a minimum timing interval between it and the last effect. So if you have 10 effects and you have a 50ms sequence you gotta pull it over 500ms before it will move. I struggled with how to handle this because the result is there are spots you can't stop at. The problem is the effects aren't tied to each other so if I were to let you drop them anywhere I would need to round to the nearest interval which means sometimes 2 effects may align on the exact same timing which means once you drop it you would never be able to drag it back to where it started and still have them all aligned.
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Hey Gil,
Please forgive my stupidity ;-) I am still just a newbie on this. Understand some of what you said, other parts I don' :-)
I tried one second timing marks.
Dropped in a "On" effect (one color).
I highlighted all 24 strings in the pixel tree and hit the "o" key to turn on everything in the one second time slot.
With it still highlighted I pushed down the "alt" key and left clicked on the right grab bar of the one second timing mark.
I dragged this out to 10 seconds (one time), 20 seconds another time and 40 seconds another time. I had timing marks set at one second intervals.
In all cases strings 1 to 6 would not drag out to the right. It stayed in the one second time slot while everything else moved o the right. Is this normal?
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Currently the alt-drag won't move until you pull it far enough that every effect you are pulling has at least a minimum timing interval between it and the last effect. So if you have 10 effects and you have a 50ms sequence you gotta pull it over 500ms before it will move. I struggled with how to handle this because the result is there are spots you can't stop at. The problem is the effects aren't tied to each other so if I were to let you drop them anywhere I would need to round to the nearest interval which means sometimes 2 effects may align on the exact same timing which means once you drop it you would never be able to drag it back to where it started and still have them all aligned.
Would it be easier add something like LOR uses for chases? Create a single effect, highlight the area to chase (forward or back ) and then hit a key to have it calculate the chase?
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I have no idea what you got going on unless I start seeing some video or a screenshot. When you select a group to alt drag you should be grabbing the right edge of the bottom effect in the selection. So when you said you grabbed the right bar of the second timing mark I gotta take a guess as to whether you are actually trying to grab a timing mark or whether you are on the effect. Are you grabbing up in the timing mark row because that would be wrong. Have you see an alt drag accomplished in any of our videos?
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Currently the alt-drag won't move until you pull it far enough that every effect you are pulling has at least a minimum timing interval between it and the last effect. So if you have 10 effects and you have a 50ms sequence you gotta pull it over 500ms before it will move. I struggled with how to handle this because the result is there are spots you can't stop at. The problem is the effects aren't tied to each other so if I were to let you drop them anywhere I would need to round to the nearest interval which means sometimes 2 effects may align on the exact same timing which means once you drop it you would never be able to drag it back to where it started and still have them all aligned.
Would it be easier add something like LOR uses for chases? Create a single effect, highlight the area to chase (forward or back ) and then hit a key to have it calculate the chase?
I love software. If this was hardware everyone would hate us if we copied a competitor. In software everyone gets mad at us if we don't...lol.
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Currently the alt-drag won't move until you pull it far enough that every effect you are pulling has at least a minimum timing interval between it and the last effect. So if you have 10 effects and you have a 50ms sequence you gotta pull it over 500ms before it will move. I struggled with how to handle this because the result is there are spots you can't stop at. The problem is the effects aren't tied to each other so if I were to let you drop them anywhere I would need to round to the nearest interval which means sometimes 2 effects may align on the exact same timing which means once you drop it you would never be able to drag it back to where it started and still have them all aligned.
Not mad. I'm just hungry. Stealing code is one thing. Borrowing ideas with potential and making them better is something we all do everyday.
Would it be easier add something like LOR uses for chases? Create a single effect, highlight the area to chase (forward or back ) and then hit a key to have it calculate the chase?
I love software. If this was hardware everyone would hate us if we copied a competitor. In software everyone gets mad at us if we don't...lol.
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Ok,
Yeah. It's still doing it and I see why. With 24 strings, you can't get that on one screen. You have to do "shift, click" in order to get everything. That works to get what is on the screen to move. However when you scroll back up to the 6 strings that are not showing, they do not move.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Ok,
Yeah. It's still doing it and I see why. With 24 strings, you can't get that on one screen. You have to do "shift, click" in order to get everything. That works to get what is on the screen to move. However when you scroll back up to the 6 strings that are not showing, they do not move.
What's funny is now you gave me enough info I don't need a video. Unfortunately all the underlying methods I use to move effects only operate on visible rows. For now you'll either have to just do it in two phases or manually adjust things.
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Ok Gil,
Understand. I really appreciate what you guys have done and also how you put up with the newbies ;-)
Let me ask you this. I was actually testing out my PA in the bandroom today and had the 2014 version of the video I mentioned before. No music on my phone (to save space) but a couple of my Christmas light videos ;-) I noticed how much better the chase did with my pixel tree than it did with the incan mega tree. I generally try to match up some of my sweeps and chases with the simple chase function in LOR. Maybe there is a better way to what I have been doing??? So that really is my question. If you look at 2:07 you will see what I am talking about. The mini trees are dumb pixels (6ft, 4ft and 2ft ones). The larger tree to the left (10ft) is a pixel tree. Better way of doing this???
https://youtu.be/G9mR2L8_pog
(https://youtu.be/G9mR2L8_pog)
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The video is only 2:07 long and that's where you told me to look. :)
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Ok,
Yeah. It's still doing it and I see why. With 24 strings, you can't get that on one screen. You have to do "shift, click" in order to get everything. That works to get what is on the screen to move. However when you scroll back up to the 6 strings that are not showing, they do not move.
Do you have grid spacing set to small? If not, set to small and see if it will fit on the screen.
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Too funny Gil. Sorry about that ;-)
Long day yesterday. About 1:35 :-)
On the spacing. You can't change the vertical spacing. They were already pretty small. I do know that is how LOR fixes that issue when looking at a large group. However, I didn't make a side by side comparison. As I said, NC's is pretty small already.
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Must be time for a bigger monitor or a vertical monitor. LOL
I hate changing my default windows screen font down small, but if I had to do it for this I would, but only while I was doing the sequencing. I'm just guessing that would have an impact, have not tried it.
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Ok Jim. I'll play that game ;-)
Yep. On my 19" screen I can see it. :-)
I will say that I have had the simple chase not work a couple of times or the whole set of strings not show on the bigger monitor. It kind of locks up and I have to restart the program.
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Too funny Gil. Sorry about that ;-)
Long day yesterday. About 1:35 :-)
On the spacing. You can't change the vertical spacing. They were already pretty small. I do know that is how LOR fixes that issue when looking at a large group. However, I didn't make a side by side comparison. As I said, NC's is pretty small already.
Yes, you can change spacing.
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Too funny Gil. Sorry about that ;-)
Long day yesterday. About 1:35 :-)
On the spacing. You can't change the vertical spacing. They were already pretty small. I do know that is how LOR fixes that issue when looking at a large group. However, I didn't make a side by side comparison. As I said, NC's is pretty small already.
Yes, you can change spacing.
...Ok.... How?
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Too funny Gil. Sorry about that ;-)
Long day yesterday. About 1:35 :-)
On the spacing. You can't change the vertical spacing. They were already pretty small. I do know that is how LOR fixes that issue when looking at a large group. However, I didn't make a side by side comparison. As I said, NC's is pretty small already.
Yes, you can change spacing.
...Ok.... How?
I'm not in from of a computer, but it's called grid spacing. Look at the top under one of the menus. There isn't many to look through. The other thing, the bigger the icons the more room that is taken. Set those to small too.
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Is under settings, grid spacing. I have 1080p and I can see 33 nodes on the screen. Set to medium and I can only see 25.
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Very good.
I see that. However on my 1366x768 setting with the laptop (can't go smaller), I see only 18 of the 24 strings. (without scrolling) Would love to adjust it further. Yeah, I see all 24 strings on the 19" separate monitor. I won't always be sequencing with that monitor though. I would think you should be able to adjust that, even if it is off the scroll screen.
Future want ?? :-)
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I don't know how you guys stand sequencing on laptops. I use a 30" monitor and 2nd screen.
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Gil--some of us have to "deal with" our laptops.... LOL!!!
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I don't know how you guys stand sequencing on laptops. I use a 30" monitor and 2nd screen.
Airport security hates it when I bring my 30" inch screen on the plane, besides it won't fit in my carry on.
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Well I've done all I can I've explained how things currently work and possible workarounds.