Sean Meighan
Software => Enhancement Requests => Topic started by: lasersmith23 on July 22, 2016, 11:05:14 PM
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Hi,
Are there any plans to include SMPTE or MIDI timecode sync to the program? I am using this setup to operate a megatree and would prefer to have it sync to the other computers and systems which are slaving to the same SMPTE reference.
The plan would be to use the same .wav / .mp3 file in the sequencer that would be playing during the show as a timing reference for programming the tree. Afterwards, the sequencer would be set to slave to SMPTE.
Thanks!
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No because we don't run our shows from xLights. The Falcon Pi Player will do all that synchronization for us.
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Thanks for mentioning the Falcon Pi Player. I had heard of it but didn't research its capabilities. I've been in the forums and watched the assembly and programming of the Raspberry Pi unit but I haven't found any mention of SMPTE or MIDI timecode sync. Which methods of sync are available with the Pi unit? If I could feed it DMX cues to fire off a series of 'looks' that would be fine as well.
Thanks!
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You can run A RasPi in a Master mode. It can then control dozens to hundreds of Remote RasPi units. (Also, the BeagleBone Black or Green units can do both modes). The master sends out Sync pulses to the remotes. Those pulses are not the same as SMPTE but do keep the units synchronized.
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Thanks for clarifying. Is there any way the unit can run as a slave? Are there external triggers which can be fed to the Pi (MIDI, DMX, etc.) for starting a show, playlist item or individual cue? I have several SMPTE/MIDI DMX recorders but none are capable of recording E1.31 data for synchronized playback. I've scoured the internet for one with no luck and would like the reliability of a standalone (preferably rackmount) setup if there is something out there.
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You will definitely get better help over at falconchristmas.com.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Yes, about FalconChristmas. They are the programmers that would add SMPTE input as a possible source.
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Thanks again for the replies! So, I have the F16v2 Pixel Controller and have had good luck running xlights / nutcracker through my laptop. Just to clarify, if Falcon Christmas updates their pc software to read SMPTE then will the Pi version automatically have the same ability? I was going to ask FC if they were going to add this feature but I've also been wanting to get away from the PC if possible and use a standalone unit which could play back the show I programmed in Nutcracker. So far the only solution online is the Pi unit. If anyone knows of a setup which could either sync to timecode or read a set of cues from a DMX, MIDI, etc. cue and 'fire off' patterns without the need for a PC (I would rather rely on a hardware solution over a PC crash any day), it would be appreciated.
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Falcon Christmas doesn't have any PC software. They write the FPP code that runs on a Pi.
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Are you trying to run a home christmas show or a concert? That SMTPE stuff is what I understood is used for concert type lighting control and it's quite unnecessary for a home christmas show. Maybe learn how we are doing it. I control any type of DMX device from xlights and you put the effect on the timeline for when you want it to happen.
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I'm trying to add a megatree to an existing outdoor show.... concert-level. I bought the E1.31 controller from falconchristmas.com, so that's why I assumed they made both hardware and the software which supports it. I was told to contact them which I am currently doing.
I have an existing SMPTE stream I would like to sync the megatree's sequences to. It's not a home Christmas show but this is the only stand-alone solution I've found online so I thought maybe I'd get some help or pointers from people who could answer my questions instead of telling me to do it their way. Hopefully someone will have a positive suggestion and I can make a solution work for this upcoming project.
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So I asked how you were using it and suggested "maybe" learn how we are doing it and you reply like I commanded you and that I'm not positive. Well good luck getting help.
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I appreciate that you were the original post pointing out the Pi unit... thanks. I just hope this is a project that could be explored and hopefully implemented in the future. Not sure who's developing software or a software/hardware solution capable of doing this. I do, however have a display at my home during Christmas and now plan on using the Pi unit.... it's a great fit for both e1.31 and DMX!
There's a lot of $$$ potential for commercial use and I currently have a client who inquired about it. No harm, no foul. Thanks for your input. :)
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BTW, just curious from those of you using the Pi unit... does it ever crash? Is it more reliable than the PC version of Nutcracker/Xlights? I could see encoding the audio file to have mono audio on the left channel and SMPTE timecode on the right, sending a timecode to the rest of the units waiting for a 'tone'. The web interface is cool. Can you skip to certain times in the soundtrack or do you need to jump through the playlist and start each song at the beginning?
Much appreciated!
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Maybe since I don't have a signature it wasn't clear I am one of the main xLights developers so I'm one of the guys that could actually get something like this done. We've typically not focused on our show player because the Falcon Pi Player has worked so well for all of us. This isn't the first time I've seen a request for SMTPE and last time I thought the Falcon developers were considering it.
So I'm not completely following how the functionality should work. Do you want to have short sequences you've already created and they get fired off at a certain time? How does that time work because I know a concert might not start on time so is there some way to trigger starting points so its really a relative time being sent out?
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Maybe a picture of our landscape will help.
xLights 4 is the sequencer. It was originally written by Dave Pitts in Oct 2014. Dave Pitts is also the original designer of the Falcon Player in 2013 and also the designer of all falcon boards.
Dave handed off the falcon player to Capt Murdoch in late 2013. Capt has been leader in that project since.,
Dave handed off the xLights sequencer to Gil Jones, Dan Kulp and Keith Westley in Jan 2015.
Dave continues as sole developer of falcon hardware.
To your question as reliability, The falcon player is very reliable. Running Linux instead of Windows I think has helped reliability. I had mine running for 3 months straight, never needed to reboot it. One user ran a park in Wisconsin on the FPP. His was mounted up in a tree and drove thousands of lights. The only issue he experienced was the FPP (really raspberry pi) would stop when temperatures approached 5 degrees F. His solution, put a 15w bulb in the case the rpi was in.
As far as smpte, i assume Gil, Dan or Keith could do this but they
a) Would need to decide if they want to take the time. The time they take to develop anything is time away from their families. Our software is open source so their is no remuneration for them.
b) decide technically how to implement it.
If you really want something like this you might make a direct donation to one of them, it might raise the priority.
xLights is used for Christmas and Halloween. Our target audience normally does NOT use artnet or smpte. Our shows are usb dongles driving lights (LOR, Renard, Pixelnet,d-lights,DMX) or E1.31 driving controllers (Falcon16v2, alphapix,pixcon,e682,pixlite).
I would estimate not even 1% of our user base would need this. If we did implement it, our user base would
expand. Because we can have one master and hundreds of remotes in FPP, each driving 250K channels each with a projector we have a solution for large shows now. Like 25 million channels, 100 projectors , or even larger
A picture describing how you imagined it would work would be a help.
sean
I created the original Nutcracker effects in 2012
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are you able to use artnet as a protocol? Opens up some "stored" and triggered abilities geared more for commercial such as what you are doing.
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artnet is currently available on the FPP. It is not available from xlights.
I should clarify:
xLights is a sequence AND a show player
FPP is a show player only
xLights runs native on Windows XP, Vista, 7,8,10. Linux and MAC 10.8 and higher
FPP only runs Linux
FPP has more support for output devices than xlights.
xlights show player: USB DMX, OpenDMX, LOR, Renard, Pixelnet,D-Light, E1.31
FPP: All the above + Artnet, triks-led
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You can trigger events to start sequences / or effect sequences on the FPP. A trigger can be a GPIO header contact or a software command. You may have what you need already there, just need to explore.
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FPP can also be triggered by E1.31 if you use the control channels to fire events.
I have considered SMPTE but that won't happen until I rewrite the input code which won't be until next year. Focus right now is playlist and player enhancements to go along with the new UI in FPP v2 which we would like out this year but won't be recommended for show use even if it is out before Halloween.
FPP supports ArtNet out via the OpenLightingArchitecture library but we don't support ArtNet input. That will come after the input code changes next year.
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I think the easiest way to make the SMPTE part work would be to make a normal show in Nutcracker, synched to a soundtrack and then be able to change the timing reference from the original audio track to the SMPTE timecode reference. As an example, I use Cakewalk's "Sonar" audio / MIDI sequencing software to send MIDI cues to external equipment, making new MIDI 'tracks' to record MIDI cues which will trigger my DMX lighting board. I make additional 'tracks' to send MIDI cues to an inexpensive DMX board which will trigger fog, bubble and snow machines. Just like using Nutcracker, I program using a .mp3 file along a timeline to sync all of the activities in the show. Since the main soundtrack is identical to Sonar's, but mastered in multi-channel audio, an external HD-based audio player is used (which also plays the main SMPTE track). I switch Sonar's timecode reference from following the .mp3 I used to program to now listen to the audio track with the SMPTE reference. When playing back the main audio player's soundtrack, you can turn up the volume on the Sonar computer and hear an almost-perfectly synched soundtrack as it follows the SMPTE timecode. What's convenient is knowing that as long as your main soundtrack is playing and multiple computers are following the same timecode, if one of them crashes during the show you can reboot while some elements of the show are still playing and the audience is still hearing a soundtrack. Let's just say that Windows, to this day does not have my vote of confidence so I tend to look for hardware-based solutions as much as possible. Hope this helps... thanks again!
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Wow... I just noticed the stream of replies from the group.... thanks! It sounds like the Pi unit is reliable enough to provide a mono audio track with the other track providing the master SMPTE timecode, operated through the web browser.
Is there a link to a thread where I can see how to trigger events through e1.31 or "a GPIO header contact or a software command"? This may be an adequate solution for the immediate future.
Other than a 'play' button, does the browser have the ability to jump through the timeline or through songs in the playlist? Again, your input is very appreciated. I'll contact those who may be able to modify the source to follow SMPTE after the busy Halloween and Christmas season.
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Here's the Falcon Christmas forum for the Falcon Pi player (FPP) that you can search and possibly find the information you're looking for.
http://falconchristmas.com/forum/ (http://falconchristmas.com/forum/)
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Other than a 'play' button, does the browser have the ability to jump through the timeline or through songs in the playlist? Again, your input is very appreciated. I'll contact those who may be able to modify the source to follow SMPTE after the busy Halloween and Christmas season.
You can jump forwards and backwards through a playlist using the 'fpp' command line helper utility but you can't seek within a sequence or media file while they are playing.
"Those who may be able" would be me, I am the lead developer of the Falcon Player.
I have plans to work on the sync code at some point already and that work would include making the sync code more modular so that different sync protocols could fit in easier.
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Good to know. It sounds like the FPP is solid enough to provide a timecode on one soundtrack channel for the time being. I'm buying a Pi 'bundle' from Amazon.com this weekend and look forward to seeing this setup run through the F16V2 pixel player and expansion board. ;D