Sean Meighan
Hardware => Falcon Pi Player => Topic started by: colonelcline on October 06, 2014, 12:27:42 PM
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What advantage is there to running a show with a FPP vs. Xlights on a dedicated PC?
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Beside no computer, small footprint, cost, easy to do, etc.
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Beside no computer, small footprint, cost, easy to do, etc.
But how about in terms of performance or reliability?
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i ran my show using xlights in 2012 and the fpp in 2013. both were reliable, both had zero lag.
i did not have my laptop tied up for two months by using the fpp.
advantages of xlights a show player
1) It works. originally written in 2010 it has been well tested
2) No addition hardware to purchase. No USB or SD cards.
3) Don't need to learn to use the web page for the fpp. You do need to learn how to setup playlists and schedule them on xlights
4) Scripts are written in BASIC
Advantages of the fpp
1) it is small, fast, reliable
2) You can play videos with your show besides lights
3) You have pixel overlay feature. While talking to people on the street you can type text and it will overlay on top of current running show. Walk to someone watching show: "Hi, what's you daughters name?" "Jenny" enter "Merry Christmas Jenny" on my phone, a few seconds later it appears on top of the current effects.
4) Can start/stop my show using iphone running a web link to the fpp web page.
5) You can have up to 64 fpp's, each with a hdmi video port, each can drive 64K channels.
This means you could have 64 hdmi projectors and 4 million channels of lights, all synced.
6) Capt Murdoch, Mykroft, Dave Pitts, Materdaddy are constantly improving it
7) Scripts are written in linux shells, perl code
so, for the extra effort the return for me is fpp will be my show player for all my future shows.
both work good, just pick how much capability u need for your show player.
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Thanks for the input! It helps.
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I ran my show all season in 2013 using the Falcon Player. Ran good the whole time. I never power off anything in my show and the show runs rain or shine every night whether I am home or not. I did have a laptop configured with xlights sitting next to the Pi for a few nights, but the Pi ran so well I moved the laptop back to my basement workbench.
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xlights gives you a visual display when using nutcracker.
xlights can do native LOR
you can remotely manage your windows-based xlights using remote desktop, or vnc
fpp can synchronize with other fpp units to create larger, distributed shows
you can remotely manage your Pi-based fpp using a web browser
you can locate your fpp out in the yard with the lights
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xlights can do native LOR
My first 80 channels in XL are COM3 LOR (a distance problem where cat5 is impractical to run and I use Linkers in a relay). Is this "native LOR"? Sounds like FPP won't do COM output, makes sense...
If I have time, I have some wireless DMX bridges that supposedly handle up to 6 universes. Would be a way to ditch the COM's/Linkers?
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"Sounds like FPP won't do COM output" is not true
Sounds like FPP won't do LOR protocol on COM output" is true.
Here are the protocols supported by both, there is only one difference: LOR protocol on comm port
xLights as a Player
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USB LOR protocol
USB DMX protocol
USB OpenDMX Protocl
USB Pixelnet
USB Renard
USB D-Light
E1.31
FPP as a Player
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FPP Does NOT Support {USB LOR protocol}
USB DMX protocol
USB OpenDMX Protocl
USB Pixelnet
USB Renard
USB D-Light
E1.31
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xlights can do native LOR
My first 80 channels in XL are COM3 LOR (a distance problem where cat5 is impractical to run and I use Linkers in a relay). Is this "native LOR"? Sounds like FPP won't do COM output, makes sense...
If I have time, I have some wireless DMX bridges that supposedly handle up to 6 universes. Would be a way to ditch the COM's/Linkers?
I used wireless dmx driven by the fpp/fpd without problem. :D
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By "distance problem" I assume you mean your controllers are too far from your show computer's location? If so, remember that the Pi can be in the yard with your controllers. You don't need any connection to your sequencing computer to run your show (though wifi is nice if you like to tweak your show and schedule during the season). It's also worth mentioning that the Pi is extraordinarily energy efficient, perfect for long-term installations (I'm planning a 100 day countdown to Christmas for next year, for instance) or for mobile shows (parade floats). Last year I used a Pi to run my singing pumpkin (LOR in DMX), a DMX flood, and a few pixel strips at our campsite at Disney (folks go all out decorating there). I did not want to drill holes in my RV so I could keep my laptop inside, and I sure didn't want to leave my laptop outside. The Pi was perfect. It's cheap enough that I didn't mind leaving it outside in a tote. I accessed it from my laptop, iPad or even iphone to change the playback (mostly to adjust volume). I'm doing a portable Christmas show for our campsite this year to include a 10' pixel tree, again Pi based.
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We light up 13 acres in a rural development,year 8. Some conduit under roads but a LOT of wire on top of the ground. Last count 25,000' of 14 gauge orange extension cords and LOTS of SPT wire. Being rural and in a "swamp" we have herds of deer that think the lights are candy and love to stomp CAT5 cable. I run a Psyops set of sequences in the main stage areas at night but it is about 1500' straight line to the entry mall stages and it seems easier to run some Linkers as all those stages are 16 ch LOR boxes. The deer are 7 and 0 on shutting that area down with cat5. Guess they are anti-rudolph?
I will not have time to deploy the FP this year but once we get the show up and running, I do plan on testing it. With the Master-slave feature I can see some potential here to use them as I did the Linkers. Then maybe I can enjoy some venison as I watch the show!!
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I ran my show all season in 2013 using the Falcon Player. Ran good the whole time. I never power off anything in my show and the show runs rain or shine every night whether I am home or not. I did have a laptop configured with xlights sitting next to the Pi for a few nights, but the Pi ran so well I moved the laptop back to my basement workbench.
What is the interface to the Falcon player.
I have a LOR network with 50 channels - is connected to my computers USB port
I have a Dumb RGB network with 50 channels - via DMX Dongle connected to my computers USB port.
e 682 with 2400 pixels connected to my computers ethernet port.
Does the Pi player have two USB and one ethernet port and do I have to connect all three just like in the show PC.
Do I have to convert LOR to DMX with a crossover cable.
Any video showing these instructions.
Thanks
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Lor protocol has just been added to the FPP. The raspberry pi , model B+ has 4 USB ports and one e1.31 port. Show show, as described, will work on the FPP no problems.
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Wow, surprising! I thought they weren't really interested in supporting (the bloated) LOR protocol. Cool.
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Wow, surprising! I thought they weren't really interested in supporting (the bloated) LOR protocol. Cool.
The LOR Protocol is not bloated. It is actually very well thought out for using limited bandwidth (it started with telephone line, not CAT5) to control multiple, daisy-chained controllers. By only sending the "changes" out to the controllers, it reduced the amount of data being sent.
Then, people started using more channels and more commands and more controllers and it ate up the bandwidth. Then you needed multiple controllers. It worked GREAT for my first 3 years. When I added a few RGB devices with rapid changes, it began to "miss" commands.
DMX doesn't miss commands because it sends EVERY command EVERY time. If something is ON, it keeps getting told to be on, 20 to 40 times per second.
Very simple command set but nothing ever misses commands.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. Compared to an xseq an LMS is grossly bloated, IMO.
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Wow, surprising! I thought they weren't really interested in supporting (the bloated) LOR protocol. Cool.
I know the LOR protocol has more overhead than the DMX protocol. Having your controllers doing things like shimmer takes cpu cycles.
I think the point is the majority of LOR users , i think, are less than a few hundred channels. If they have hardware configured for the LOR protocol, they can drive tehir show and use e1.31 for rgb. If they are going toincreases channels on their ac stuff, probably converting over to dmx is wise.
I think this is all about trying to be as encompassing as we can to all types of uses.
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We want FPP to be usable for all and adding LOR protocol support was an easy addition so I went ahead and added it. FPP v1.0 will actually have several new output methods that v0.4.0 did not have.
The LOR protocol and the LMS file spec are two different things. I agree with Sean, the protocol is efficient for low channel counts or low amount of change because it does only send changes. If you are changing lots of channel values then the efficiency is lost and your max channel count quickly goes down due to the overhead of the protocol.
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Sorry, yes, I was confusing the LMS file with the protocol. The LMS file is what is bloated. But considering that LOR has to read the LMS and render their protocol in real-time I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference where the bloat lives. I assume you will have pre-rendered LOR protocol being served by FPP (i.e. we won't be uploading LMS files to the Pi, right?).
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Lor protocol has just been added to the FPP. The raspberry pi , model B+ has 4 USB ports and one e1.31 port. Show show, as described, will work on the FPP no problems.
Thank you. How would I output to a Falcon Pi Player.
Do I have to bring in the LMS file(having LOR and NC RGB models) into NC as an xseq and then convert it to fseq
Thank you.
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Make sure u have the setup tab defined, next go to convert tab. If you don't want any nutcracker effects u convert lms into fseq and go then to FPP. If u will be adding nutcracker effects, convert lms into Xseq, add nutcracker and then convert Xseq into fseq
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Sean,
Not yet sure of the steps to add NC models into converted LMS file. I have taken the NC models to LOR then them sequenced in LOR. I do understand it is better to sequence once for all in NC but havent got the hang of it.
Now if I have a LMS file which has NC models incorporated, I guess i will convert them back to xseq and then fseq for output on the FPP.
Thank you.
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I ran my show all season in 2013 using the Falcon Player. Ran good the whole time. I never power off anything in my show and the show runs rain or shine every night whether I am home or not. I did have a laptop configured with xlights sitting next to the Pi for a few nights, but the Pi ran so well I moved the laptop back to my basement workbench.
What is the interface to the Falcon player.
I have a LOR network with 50 channels - is connected to my computers USB port
I have a Dumb RGB network with 50 channels - via DMX Dongle connected to my computers USB port.
e 682 with 2400 pixels connected to my computers ethernet port.
Does the Pi player have two USB and one ethernet port and do I have to connect all three just like in the show PC.
Do I have to convert LOR to DMX with a crossover cable.
Any video showing these instructions.
Thanks
crossover cable
this is from Fasteddy presentation that was used at the Sydney and Brisbane minis.
as a side note lor GRN/WHT (3) has +9V on it and just trim this wire off as it's not needed and you don't the +9V shorting out ;-)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Yes, FPP only plays .fseq files but it can output to controllers using multiple protocols including LOR.
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Lor protocol has just been added to the FPP. The raspberry pi , model B+ has 4 USB ports and one e1.31 port. Show show, as described, will work on the FPP no problems.
Got the Pi player flashed the FPP image and did all the settings required.
There is no option to chose LOR. They have either e 1.31 or pixelnet/DMX. How do I set up LOR
All loaded, sequence shows playing on the web portal, audio output is there but lights dont come on.
What could be wrong. Please help.
Regards
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Regards,
First shut down the FPP
then hook up your LOR dongle
now power up your FPP
and after you have fully boot up
you will have option to chose LOR dongle
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Thank you. Will try that.
Cheers!
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LOR output is only available in the FPP v1.0 beta or by switching a v0.4.0 SD image to the 'stage' code branch which contains the v1.0 beta code.
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more info on the FPP v1.0 beta or by switching a v0.4.0 SD image to the 'stage' code branch which contains the v1.0 beta code check out this link http://falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html
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Added LOR Dongle. Booted up FPP.
LOR option does not show up.
Does this mean I have to convert LOR channels to DMX via a DMX crossover cable in order to play in FPP.
I also have dumb RGB channles with ENTEC dongle. Even these are not playing on the FPP. In the settings I have put them under DMX.
Thanks
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Read post from CaptainMurdoch ;)
LOR output is only available in the FPP v1.0 beta or by switching a v0.4.0 SD image to the 'stage' code branch which contains the v1.0 beta code.
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Which entec dongle do you have, there are Open and Pro versions and you have To select the right version in FPP. Also if you have removed the LOR dongle your device name may have changed. You need to reboot with the dongles inserted as you want the show to run as indicated in a previous post.
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I have a DMX USB dongle bought from seasonal entertainment. It does not say open or Pro.
Also do I have to format the SD card again if if I have to flash a new image - 1.0 beta.
Regards.
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I am assuming this is the zDongle which is entec pro compatible so you would configure a DMX pro output.
Yes, you should reformat the SD card using the format utility mentioned in the install instructions whenever you install a new FPP image. This resets the partitions allowing you to use the maximum amount of the SD for the new install.
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Thank you. All the lights ouput except LOR.
I have set them up as channels 1 to 48. What can be missing.
See screen shot attached
[attachment deleted by admin]
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3) You have pixel overlay feature. While talking to people on the street you can type text and it will overlay on top of current running show. Walk to someone watching show: "Hi, what's you daughters name?" "Jenny" enter "Merry Christmas Jenny" on my phone, a few seconds later it appears on top of the current effects.
How would you set this up so it can be done on the fly like this?