Questions about 3D

[algerdes]

I've admired the implementation of 3D in the program, but up until now have had no use for it (2D worked for everything we were doing).  I haven't kept up with the changes.  Well - things have suddenly changed, so I'm trying to learn as fast as possible.

I've been able to add a map image of our drive areas to the ground grid, but that is about as far as I've gotten.
After viewing the 2018 (Australian Mini) and 2019 (xEssentials) videos, some things have been answered.  Unfortunately a few basic things haven't.

1.  Is there any way to marry the ground grid to the image?  I want to make sure the grid and image don't get separated in all the swinging around that happens when I move the mouse.

2.  Is there any way to "lock" the ground grid so that it doesn't move while I'm trying to move props around on it?  So far this has been a pretty big hassle.  If the ground grid can be set at whatever angle, then locked so it doesn't move, this would be a great help.

3.  I realize that you move props on one of the three axis. I have a megatree (one of several) that only presents me with the square red, blue, green dots - and not the arrows mentioned in the videos.  How do i get it to allow me to move it around on the grid?  (The squares allow me to change the prop size, which I don't want to do after it is originally set.)

4. It was mentioned in the videos that multiple prop selection was not available at that time (I believe it was the 2019 xEssentials, but don't quote me on that.)  Has this been added, and if so - how?  I have a lot of props to be moved around, and it would be wonderful to move them in the groups that are made by them.

5. How do we rotate a prop on the up (Y ?) axis?  I have it in place on the grid, but need to face it a different direction. There are several of these to be done.

Note that I have reviewed the manual that is on the xLights website.  (Front page - right side button.)  There isn't much on the 3D system in this document, and it is presented as being 1 year since last update.  I thought the guys (and gals) had worked on it since then.  Is there another one somewhere with more on the 3D system?

Thanks for any and all answers you can send my way.  Unfortunately I've been presented with a very short timeline to show the prototype for the new "show" and will need as much information as I can gather very quickly. 

Al

[Gilrock]

I think all of those questions were covered in my xEssentials video on 3D.  You cannot even select the grid when you are on the models tab so not sure what you mean...only the View Objects tab lets you select the grid.  You need to click the center orange handle on the models...it?s a whole new world....lol

[algerdes]

Re-viewed the 2019 xEssentials video.  Apparently I fell asleep during the section on the handles.  "Click on the orange/center and it rotates through the different tools."

There is a problem with this as my props hide the central control handle.  Can't find the crazy thing in the middle of a megatree.  I truly wish there was a button, or key combination that would duplicate the automatic cycling through. 

I look forward to using this capability with my new layout and circumstance.
Thank you for listening.

Edit:
BTW - The new definition of FRUSTRATION is attempting to put a star on top of a tree!

[Ebuechner]

I found it easier when trying to lay out a 3D grid to start in the 2D grid and get things lined up then move to the 3D and just use the blue arrow and draw things forward or back to set the depth.
From there I move to the size/ location section in the bottom of the model settings and adjust the numbers to get my model fine-tuned as far as size scale and rotation.
And you can always lock any of the models or grids in that bottom section or with a right click to keep them from moving.

[algerdes]

I too found that last night/this morning.  Go back to 2D, pull the prop(s) together and inline.  Go into 3D and CAREFULLY grab the prop pairs (tree & star, castle panels [x3], etc.) and move them together.  Resizing is a joy, but I'll work that out.

It must be going better as it only took me 40 minutes this morning to add 3 mini-trees and their stars to the 3D layout. 

I do miss drag and drop though.  It took about an hour this morning to reset all the 2D stuff (64 props) in the 2D version because I could unlock, click, drag, drop, lock without touching the keyboard.

Sometimes I wish I would have been in the Navy instead of the Air Force.  I'd be used to the constantly moving floor.

As I can see the utility in 3D, and it being a pretty good fit for our new circumstances, I will continue.  Just don't be surprised when you see me at the next Expo with a totally bald head.

[algerdes]

An update:
I'm in the process of "taking apart" Gil's 2019 video.  There is so much information in there.  A lot of it goes right past you until you are trying to do something within the program (3D) and then you go back and there it is.

Three things I don't understand.
1. Click and hold the mouse button (left), and you can rotate, slide and spin the whole thing. 
Click and hold the mouse wheel, and you can change your view from lower to higher, and move the stage from left to right, but no spin.  What is this second function called? Why the two different methods?

2.  Is there anyway to "group" different props for movement?  I can individually select, and I can select multiples with the drag.  What I want to do is to click on the group and they stay together. I have several props that are "teamed together", such as a megatree (x6) and its star/spinner.  Another would be the 16 members of the Singing Christmas Tree (16 Boscoyo Chromabulbs in the shape of a tree).  Getting them together in 3D is really a challenge if there is another prop behind. 

In 2D, if you miss one during the selection, this isn't a big thing. Select, drag and drop.  In 3D, if something gets left behind (dropped out of the group, or missed during the selection) then it is a real bear to try to get the missing item back in line with the rest.

Edit:  I went back and created a group for each of the trees with stars.  (1 tree, 1 star per group.)
Selecting this "group", I got the two parts to work together.  The trick was to once it was selected, Ctrl-Click on one of the members called up the move handles.  Before this, none.  :|

The same worked with multiples such as the Singing Christmas Tree.  Select it from the list, then Ctrl-Click on one of the group to get the handles.


3.  Something you may want to reinforce is the fact that if a prop is locked, no matter what you do in either 2D or 3D, nothing will happen to that prop.  In my case, I lock the whole thing.  Didn't even hit me that the 3D selection was all red.  This also made it nearly impossible to find the "handles" to try to do anything.  Lesson learned.

So far I still have most of my hair.  Then again, there is always tomorrow.   

[Gilrock]

1.  The left mouse button move is doing Rotation.  The center wheel down does Translation.  Scrolling the wheel is Zoom.

2.  You can hold Shift and drag select multiple models.  After you've let go you can use Control key to add/remove items from the group.  It's a tri-state.  First click add it to the group, second click on same model makes it the focused model with handles, third click removes it from the group.  As far as the handles not being present I can't say if that's how I left it or someone touched the code and didn't test all these little nuances I had designed on purpose.  If you have a repeatable way to demonstrate then show it to us.

3.  How do you suggest we reinforce that Locked means Locked?  Its like when people say the program isn't intuitive and I'm like well I always thought people would know what locked meant...lol.

[algerdes]

Thanks Gil.  I like to know what is "supposed to be happening", and not what I think is happening. 

I use lock all the time in 2D.  When something doesn't move when I try to move it - I get the wake-up-call and see that the handles are red.

In 3D, the same.  I didn't put two and two together.  Red is locked.  This time it is the bounding boxes around each prop, but the same.

The only thing that doesn't make sense is when the grid is "locked".  It still moves.  It still can spin around like a top if I touch the screen wrong.  Not quite sure what "locked" is for the grid.

[Gilrock]

Can you show a video of what you mean by the grid spinning when locked?  You can still spin the view.  The grid actually cannot even be selected to be moved unless you change from the Models tab to the View Objects tab.