channel matching between FPP, XL/NC channel setup and controllers?

[Santacarl]

Hey All,

When I initially started using the FPP and XL/NC in conjunction I was pretty much winging it....and while I got things working with my controllers I'm not sure I understand if it's the best way to go about matching my layout/setup with the controllers....

For example:  In XL/NC and the FPP I have, picking an arbitrary # here, 200 channels on universe #1 and 300 channels on universe #2. 

In XL/NC and the FPP I start on universe 1 channel 1 and when I get to universe 2 the channel number keeps on sequentially up to 500.... But in my controller I have universe 2 start on channel 1 (instead of channel 201) so I don't have a sequential continuation between universes....  and this doesn't match the running channel numbers in XL/NC or the FPP....  It works, even though I might just have been lucky!

Currently I'm running multicast but was thinking of going to unicast. 

So since the FPP setup has all my channels running sequentially (1st to the last) my question is:  in the FPP Layout tab how do I assign the specific IP address for the start of a given model for unicast purposes since my channels in the controllers are broken up with starting channel number 1 for each universe? 

If that question is confusing please excuse.....I'm so confused on this issue I might not be able to articulate it any better.....

[poporacer]

xLights does a great job of managing the channels for you. As you are aware, a Universe can only have a max value of 512 channels, but you are free to make it any number you want, less than that if you desire (I prefer to leave them all at 512) Your Universes do not need to go sequentially. You can have Universes 1-20 then 30-50, etc.

I am assuming that the running channel number you are referencing is the channel number indicated in parenthesis in xLights? This number is the Absolute Address for this channel. An Absolute Address is a number to identify each channel, each pixel needs 3 channels so will need 3 sequential UNIQUE Absolute Addresses. You cannot have duplicate Absolute Addresses in your show (unless you have different pixels acting as one pixel)

If you do not manually change the Absolute Address of any of your model's start channels in xLights, then the Absolute Address reflected in xLights will just count up from 1 to the end of your channels, for most people this is a reference only and ignored. If you were to add a Universe in the middle of your layout, xLights will automatically adjust the Absolute Channel reference to all of the subsequent Universes. This is the biggest advantage of using Universe/Channel addressing and relative model start channels. Expanding or changing your show hardware or size is greatly simplified.

You can identify each channel of each pixel by whatever method you want, I suggest keeping the Universe/Channel method you are currently using and use this in all of your devices, XL/FPP/controllers.

So using your example and assuming that you are not using manual start channels on your models in xLights,
Universe 1 has 200 channels so the Absolute Channel referenced in xLights will show Channels 1-200. Then Universe 2, channel 1 actually maps to Absolute channel 201 and the Absolute channel reflected in xLights will just keep counting up. As long as you keep to the same convention in all of your devices, you shouldn't have a problem.
Going to Unicast shouldn't be a problem but to be sure I am tracking, I am a little confused with your question.

So since the FPP setup has all my channels running sequentially (1st to the last) my question is:  in the FPP Layout tab how do I assign the specific IP address for the start of a given model for unicast purposes since my channels in the controllers are broken up with starting channel number 1 for each universe? 

What part of FPP? I don't know what the layout tab in FPP is referencing, Channel Inputs, Outputs? xLights has a layout tab, but I don't think FPP does?

Your FPP device has its IP address set up so it knows it's IP address and you don't need to set up the IP address for a given model.

To try and explain it (not totally accurate but an example). If you have a main player (FPP/xSchedule) and have it connected to a switch/router. Then you have 8 FPPs (controllers) each connected to the switch/router through an Ethernet cable.

If you are using Multicast the player will send out the lighting information similar to shouting in a room to everyone. So each ethernet cable going to the FPPs will be transmitting the data for all 8 FPPs(controllers) (there is back and forth communication as well). So each FPP(controller) will receive something like, "controller 1 (actually the IP address for controller 1), light your lights this way, controller 2, light your lights this way, controller 3, light your lights this way, etc." and this will be repeated on all 8 ethernet cables. Controller 1 knows who it is (by its IP address) so will only listen to the information relevant to him.

When you use Unicast, the router/switch will route the relevant data to each FPP/controller. So on the Ethernet cable going to controller 1, it will broadcast, "Controller 1, light your lights this way", on the Ethernet cable going to controller 2, it will broadcast, "Controller 2, light your lights this way" and so forth.

Each network communication has some back and forth communication indicating that they received the info sent so it is more than the basic communication so you can see that using Multicast greatly congests the network traffic.

So basically with all of that mumbo jumbo I spewed out. Changing to Unicast should be a simple almost seamless change!

[Santacarl]

Going to Unicast shouldn't be a problem but to be sure I am tracking, I am a little confused with your question.

So since the FPP setup has all my channels running sequentially (1st to the last) my question is:  in the FPP Layout tab how do I assign the specific IP address for the start of a given model for unicast purposes since my channels in the controllers are broken up with starting channel number 1 for each universe? 

What part of FPP? I don't know what the layout tab in FPP is referencing, Channel Inputs, Outputs? xLights has a layout tab, but I don't think FPP does?

My bad.  I was watching one of Keith's videos and he was going back and forth between 2 tabs in XL (setup and layout) and I turned my head for a moment and he switched and I didn't realize it.....He was looking at the setup tab and I was thinking he was still on the layout tab and he referenced the IP entering the IP address in the port column.  He had an IP address for each port he was using on that controller..... 

So I started 'fiddling' with the port on one of my controllers to understand how to change it to unicast from multicast.....and I got confused....  I see where you hit the 'change' button and get to the menu to add the IP (192.168.0.xxx).  You also have "Starting universe" "Number of universes" and "Last channel" options but I don't see any place to identify the 'start' channel.....so I figured there must be some way to enter it in another place that I'm not aware of....

BTW....I like your style of explaining the concept....it's worded and uses examples that a non tech type can follow and understand....  Thanks for responding

[poporacer]

My bad.  I was watching one of Keith's videos and he was going back and forth between 2 tabs in XL (setup and layout) and I turned my head for a moment and he switched and I didn't realize it.....He was looking at the setup tab and I was thinking he was still on the layout tab and he referenced the IP entering the IP address in the port column.  He had an IP address for each port he was using on that controller.....

I have never seen anyone use a different IP for each port on the controller? I don't even think this is possible. What video so I can watch it to see what he is doing? I will probably learn something! 

So I started 'fiddling' with the port on one of my controllers to understand how to change it to unicast from multicast.....and I got confused....

What controller are you using? Normally your controller and or FPP will have one IP address and all of the data will go to that controller/FPP based on the IP address for that controller. Based on the String Port settings in the FPP/Controller, the controller will know how to route the data it receives to each port. In xLights, you can designate almost all of your controller configurations and use xLights to configure your controller (for most but not all controllers) but that isn't required to be entered, xLights does not need to know anything about port numbers in a controller.

I see where you hit the 'change' button and get to the menu to add the IP (192.168.0.xxx).

Are you talking about in the xLights setup tab?

You also have "Starting universe" "Number of universes" and "Last channel" options but I don't see any place to identify the 'start' channel.....so I figured there must be some way to enter it in another place that I'm not aware of....

I assume that you are still in the xLights setup tab? Keep in mind in xLights that Universes and channels have absolutely nothing at all to do with the ports on the controllers. xLights can care less what ports your controllers are using, but xLights does have a feature to configure your controller so this information needs to be entered only if you are using this functionality. When you are setting up your Universe/Channels, basically all you are doing is reserving space in order to uniquely identify each channel. In xLights on the Layout tab on your models, you do not need to need to setup controller ports, this is only used if you are going to use xLights to configure your controller for you. When you are in the setup tab and configuring Universes, the first column on the screen that says "Number" is simply a line number. You can actually assign your start channel for your models based on this line number, it is referred to as Output Number in the start channel screen. I won't explain how that works because very few people use that method.
To explain the E1.31 settings you are referencing, there are the following options:

• Method-This is where you select if this Universe is going to be addressed via Unicast or Multicast
• IP Address-This is were you identify the IP address of the controller that will be using these universe(s)
• Starting Universe #-This is to setup the first Universe number that you want for this line number (refer to above
• # Universes-You can actually establish a range of Universes to display on a line. Many people will just use one line per Universe. Other people don't like scrolling through pages in the Setup tab and will group all of the universes used for each controller in one line So if they have 8 controllers there will only be 8 lines in the Setup tab. To explain further, you have 3 controllers, the first one controls 2000 lights (which will need 12 Universes), the second controller controls 1500 lights(which will need 9 Universes) and the third one controls 800 lights (which will need 5 Universes). So you could setup your first E1.31 as Starting Universe- 1, # Universes- 12, Last Channel-512(this is the number of channels per Universe so use what you decide here). Then you will add another E1.31 as  Starting Universe- 13(or whatever start Universe convention you are using), # Universes- 9, Last Channel-512, then follow suit for the last E1.31. You will end up with 3 lines in your Setup page, one for Universes 1-12, a second line with Universes 13-21 and a third line for Universes 22-26
• Last Channel-this is the last channel you are using for each Universe, typically 512 or 510

BTW....I like your style of explaining the concept....it's worded and uses examples that a non tech type can follow and understand....  Thanks for responding

Thanks, I enjoy helping people and understand that everyone learns in a different method. That is why I am rewriting the FPP Manual.

After thinking about this, I think, and this is just purely speculation, is that in the Video, Keith was actually in the Layout tab and entering the Start Channel for a model and was using the line number from the Setup tab?

I hope this helps

[Santacarl]

My bad.  I was watching one of Keith's videos and he was going back and forth between 2 tabs in XL (setup and layout) and I turned my head for a moment and he switched and I didn't realize it.....He was looking at the setup tab and I was thinking he was still on the layout tab and he referenced the IP entering the IP address in the port column.  He had an IP address for each port he was using on that controller.....

I have never seen anyone use a different IP for each port on the controller? I don't even think this is possible. What video so I can watch it to see what he is doing? I will probably learn something! 

So I started 'fiddling' with the port on one of my controllers to understand how to change it to unicast from multicast.....and I got confused....

What controller are you using? Normally your controller and or FPP will have one IP address and all of the data will go to that controller/FPP based on the IP address for that controller. Based on the String Port settings in the FPP/Controller, the controller will know how to route the data it receives to each port. In xLights, you can designate almost all of your controller configurations and use xLights to configure your controller (for most but not all controllers) but that isn't required to be entered, xLights does not need to know anything about port numbers in a controller.

I see where you hit the 'change' button and get to the menu to add the IP (192.168.0.xxx).

Are you talking about in the xLights setup tab?

You also have "Starting universe" "Number of universes" and "Last channel" options but I don't see any place to identify the 'start' channel.....so I figured there must be some way to enter it in another place that I'm not aware of....

I assume that you are still in the xLights setup tab? Keep in mind in xLights that Universes and channels have absolutely nothing at all to do with the ports on the controllers. xLights can care less what ports your controllers are using, but xLights does have a feature to configure your controller so this information needs to be entered only if you are using this functionality. When you are setting up your Universe/Channels, basically all you are doing is reserving space in order to uniquely identify each channel. In xLights on the Layout tab on your models, you do not need to need to setup controller ports, this is only used if you are going to use xLights to configure your controller for you. When you are in the setup tab and configuring Universes, the first column on the screen that says "Number" is simply a line number. You can actually assign your start channel for your models based on this line number, it is referred to as Output Number in the start channel screen. I won't explain how that works because very few people use that method.
To explain the E1.31 settings you are referencing, there are the following options:

• Method-This is where you select if this Universe is going to be addressed via Unicast or Multicast
• IP Address-This is were you identify the IP address of the controller that will be using these universe(s)
• Starting Universe #-This is to setup the first Universe number that you want for this line number (refer to above
• # Universes-You can actually establish a range of Universes to display on a line. Many people will just use one line per Universe. Other people don't like scrolling through pages in the Setup tab and will group all of the universes used for each controller in one line So if they have 8 controllers there will only be 8 lines in the Setup tab. To explain further, you have 3 controllers, the first one controls 2000 lights (which will need 12 Universes), the second controller controls 1500 lights(which will need 9 Universes) and the third one controls 800 lights (which will need 5 Universes). So you could setup your first E1.31 as Starting Universe- 1, # Universes- 12, Last Channel-512(this is the number of channels per Universe so use what you decide here). Then you will add another E1.31 as  Starting Universe- 13(or whatever start Universe convention you are using), # Universes- 9, Last Channel-512, then follow suit for the last E1.31. You will end up with 3 lines in your Setup page, one for Universes 1-12, a second line with Universes 13-21 and a third line for Universes 22-26
• Last Channel-this is the last channel you are using for each Universe, typically 512 or 510

BTW....I like your style of explaining the concept....it's worded and uses examples that a non tech type can follow and understand....  Thanks for responding

Thanks, I enjoy helping people and understand that everyone learns in a different method. That is why I am rewriting the FPP Manual.

After thinking about this, I think, and this is just purely speculation, is that in the Video, Keith was actually in the Layout tab and entering the Start Channel for a model and was using the line number from the Setup tab?

I hope this helps

He was in the setup tab but wasn't entering different IP's ...they were all the same IP...he was just placing them in the IP Address box for setups of the E1.31.  I just mentioned that because I was trying to change one of my setup entries from multicast to unicast and noticed I had to enter an actual controller IP....that's how little I understand this unicast stuff....LOL...

Actually the video I was watching was more advanced than what I was looking for but it was informative for sure.....I suspect the way I have my controllers set up this technique demonstrated in the video of uploading from XL to controllers wouldn't match....

Anyhow here's a link to the video I was watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfax5RK3FWI

Unfortunately since I can't test and tinker until I have the entire network set up I'm thinking I stick with multicast rather than change a bunch of stuff blindly and find out it doesn't work the first night of the season...I hate surprises! I can only imagine frantically trying to get the display to work.....Haha

[poporacer]

He was in the setup tab but wasn't entering different IP's ...they were all the same IP...he was just placing them in the IP Address box for setups of the E1.31.

Yes, you will have the same IP for all of the Universes controlled by that particular IP. Like I mentioned, Unicast will only send the data that is relevant to each controller. So all of the Universes that a particular controller is handling have to have the IP address for that controller associated with it. So in the previous example I mentioned, controller 1 will need 12 Universes defined and so that Unicast will send this information and only this information to controller 1, all 12 Universes have to have the IP address for controller 1 associated with the Universe and then the next 9 Universes (Controller2's Universes) will have the IP for Controller 2 associated with those Universes. 

I just mentioned that because I was trying to change one of my setup entries from multicast to unicast and noticed I had to enter an actual controller IP....that's how little I understand this unicast stuff....LOL...

Yes, when using Unicast, xLights needs to know what Universes are going to which controller.

Actually the video I was watching was more advanced than what I was looking for but it was informative for sure.....I suspect the way I have my controllers set up this technique demonstrated in the video of uploading from XL to controllers wouldn't match....

And why is that? This video was demonstrating the upload feature from xLights to the controllers, unless you are doing something out of the normal, it should work. But however you have your controllers setup, changing from Multicast to Unicast is fairly simple.

Anyhow here's a link to the video I was watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfax5RK3FWI

Unfortunately since I can't test and tinker until I have the entire network set up I'm thinking I stick with multicast rather than change a bunch of stuff blindly and find out it doesn't work the first night of the season...I hate surprises! I can only imagine frantically trying to get the display to work.....Haha

There is no reason that you can't have your display ready just a couple days early? In reality it would only take a few minutes to make the change and I don't see any reason why if you did get something messed up, it couldn't be resolved in one day.

If you decide to change to Unicast, here are the basic steps.

1. Determine what Universes each Controller is actually using. This is usually a sequential range. And note the IP address for that range of Universes.
2. Go to the xLights Setup tab and select all the Universes that are associated with your first controller (you can select the first one and then hold down the shift key and select the last Universe associated with the controller to select all of them)
3. Right Click on any of the selected Universes and click on Bulk Edit and choose IP address.
4. Enter the IP address for the first controller.
5. Repeat this process for the rest of the controllers.

At this point, in the xLights setup tab, right click on one Universe for the first Controller and then select Upload to controller, then select E1.31 Input Definition and then Falcon. (do not select the Output option if you haven't setup the port numbers in your models in the xLights Layout tab.)

Then right click one of the Universes for the first controller and select Upload to controller, then select E1.31 Input Definition and then FPP Bridge Mode.

[Santacarl]

Actually the video I was watching was more advanced than what I was looking for but it was informative for sure.....I suspect the way I have my controllers set up this technique demonstrated in the video of uploading from XL to controllers wouldn't match....

And why is that?

Well....over the years I have moved some elements around and they are now on different controllers so the 'sequential' universe number is somewhat askew...some controllers have universe numbers that are no where close to each other....I might have universes on the controller that go 40-50.....then skip to 70..... I just figured that would be problematic for an auto upload that Keith implies likes sequential numbering....

If you decide to change to Unicast, here are the basic steps.

1. Determine what Universes each Controller is actually using. This is usually a sequential range. And note the IP address for that range of Universes.
2. Go to the xLights Setup tab and select all the Universes that are associated with your first controller (you can select the first one and then hold down the shift key and select the last Universe associated with the controller to select all of them)
3. Right Click on any of the selected Universes and click on Bulk Edit and choose IP address.
4. Enter the IP address for the first controller.
5. Repeat this process for the rest of the controllers.

At this point, in the xLights setup tab, right click on one Universe for the first Controller and then select Upload to controller, then select E1.31 Input Definition and then Falcon. (do not select the Output option if you haven't setup the port numbers in your models in the xLights Layout tab.)

Then right click one of the Universes for the first controller and select Upload to controller, then select E1.31 Input Definition and then FPP Bridge Mode.

Thanks for listing the basic steps...  That should keep me from veering off track... 

I think much of my insecurity/confusion comes from prior experience.  I have used HLS and NC in a combo sequencing method for several years.  I started out with HLS and had a lot of sequencing already finished for all my AC stuff.  I then began to add pixels and brought in models from XL and have been slowly transitioning to XL alone.  The addition of more user friendly AC sequencing in XL has sped that up.

I once tried to get unicast to work with my old 2 headed sequencer method but now I'm beginning to suspect the problems I ran in to was some mismatch between the 2 software packages, the controllers and FPP.....Just couldn't get blinky flashy to work AT ALL....so I've been a bit 'gun shy' to venture there again. 

I think I will try using only XL with a couple of my spare controllers.  That way I won't break what I know is currently working.  That will also allow me to work with a much smaller setup as I learn.  If I get unicast working I will feel more comfortable trying to change over my entire display.....

[poporacer]

Well....over the years I have moved some elements around and they are now on different controllers so the 'sequential' universe number is somewhat askew...some controllers have universe numbers that are no where close to each other....I might have universes on the controller that go 40-50.....then skip to 70..... I just figured that would be problematic for an auto upload that Keith implies likes sequential numbering....

I don't think it was an issue with sequential Universes, it was an issue with connecting a large prop to sequential ports on a controller, and that was just for using the controller upload feature and that is because you can only enter the fist port number you are using on your model. I have gaps in my universes...some as big as 80 and no problems, even using the upload function! Also, cleaning up your Universes will be a simple process and there are some practices that you can adopt to make future changes easy to implement I can walk you through that if you want.

Thanks for listing the basic steps...  That should keep me from veering off track... 

I think much of my insecurity/confusion comes from prior experience.  I have used HLS and NC in a combo sequencing method for several years.  I started out with HLS and had a lot of sequencing already finished for all my AC stuff.  I then began to add pixels and brought in models from XL and have been slowly transitioning to XL alone.  The addition of more user friendly AC sequencing in XL has sped that up.

I once tried to get unicast to work with my old 2 headed sequencer method but now I'm beginning to suspect the problems I ran in to was some mismatch between the 2 software packages, the controllers and FPP.....Just couldn't get blinky flashy to work AT ALL....so I've been a bit 'gun shy' to venture there again. 

I think I will try using only XL with a couple of my spare controllers.  That way I won't break what I know is currently working.  That will also allow me to work with a much smaller setup as I learn.  If I get unicast working I will feel more comfortable trying to change over my entire display.....

Totally understandable