Sean Meighan
Software => Nutcracker Models => Topic started by: RandyS on October 19, 2016, 01:10:03 PM
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I have 23 4-color LED Mini Trees and 12 4-color LED Twig Trees in my display. What is the easiest way to set them up in the 'layout' tab so that I can control each tree by it's individual colors. I have tried setting them up as a tree, with 4 strings which gives me 4 channels, but when I try to set up a group by color I am not able to. Only way I can get to the individual strings is on the sequencer tab. Do I have to create a model for each tree by color, and stack them on top of each other? Is there an easier way?
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Anyone?
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Multiple models stacked on top of each other is the way I do it. That way you can group all the red trees, the green trees, etc.
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Yeah I don't know what your 4 colors are but the problem is the models in xLights are designed to have RGB effects dropped on them. So the question is what do we do when you drop an effect on something represented by 4 colors. We have an RGBW string type but you can't activate the white at the same time as the RGB portion. They work better if you just define them as single color models so that when an effect is dropped on them there is no ambiguity as to how to apply the effect.
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Thanks for the replies - ugh, but not what I was hoping for........ enhancement please...... ;D
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If there was a good way to enhance it we would have already done it. Its the same thing as people defining single color purple models and then wondering why nothing happens when they drop a yellow effect on it. 4+ color models really only work when sequenced at the channel level. Once you start sequencing at the model level then things break down. That's why it works in LOR because you sequence channels in LOR.
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If there was a good way to enhance it we would have already done it. Its the same thing as people defining single color purple models and then wondering why nothing happens when they drop a yellow effect on it. 4+ color models really only work when sequenced at the channel level. Once you start sequencing at the model level then things break down. That's why it works in LOR because you sequence channels in LOR.
We sequence channels in Vixen also.
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And you can sequence channels in xLights if you want. You can create a model that is a single channel. If you have a better idea of how it could work then describe how it would be designed.
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And you can sequence channels in xLights if you want. You can create a model that is a single channel. If you have a better idea of how it could work then describe how it would be designed.
I will leave the designing to the folks with the big brains. This is not a complaint, but it does surprise me that more resources have been devoted to accommodate LOR users than Vixen users.
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Probably because the developers were LoR, not vixen. I know I've heard Gil repeatedly ask for vixen files and not many have accommodated. It's hard for them to do anything without vixen files.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
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Probably because the developers were LoR, not vixen. I know I've heard Gil repeatedly ask for vixen files and not many have accommodated. It's hard for them to do anything without vixen files.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Yes, you are right. I would be glad to provide any Vixen 2.1 files requested. I have 10 sequences of over 1000 channels each.
(Can we get an ex Vixen 2.1 user to become a Developer please??)
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Ok then make a video of how you work with your 4 color model in Vixen. I don't use Vixen and when we give seminars and ask for feedback the number of people using Vixen in the room is less than 2% compared to LOR at about 95%. I'm just saying I don't know what we would do to accomodate a model that's made up of say red, yellow, orange, and purple when someone drops an RGB effect on it. Your enhancement request is what? You want me to think of how to make some idea you have a reality but you're not sure what your idea would look like. We already provide you a way to deal with it. Just create a single color model for each color...so it's not like you can't do it.
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This is kind of rough, and hopefully other Vixen users will chime in with their ideas on this.
What I would like to have the ability to do is when creating a model, designate the model as a LED (or incan) prop. The user fields would then allow entry for how many colors are on the prop, and what those colors are (since they would be constant). Xlights would then create the prop with only one instance showing on the layout screen, but would provide as many sequencing lines of control as there are colors on the prop, with the ability to drop effects on any of the colors. Possibly the 'single color' option could be enhanced to provide the capability I am looking for? ;D
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This is kind of rough, and hopefully other Vixen users will chime in with their ideas on this.
What I would like to have the ability to do is when creating a model, designate the model as a LED (or incan) prop. The user fields would then allow entry for how many colors are on the prop, and what those colors are (since they would be constant). Xlights would then create the prop with only one instance showing on the layout screen, but would provide as many sequencing lines of control as there are colors on the prop, with the ability to drop effects on any of the colors. Possibly the 'single color' option could be enhanced to provide the capability I am looking for? ;D
If I create a mini tree with 4 colors, red, green, blue, and white. I drop two effects, one on red and one on green. How do you display that? Do you combine the colors, or try and show both at the same time. If the latter, how do you do that? If the first, isn't that confusing? Creating multiple models is better.
James
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This is kind of rough, and hopefully other Vixen users will chime in with their ideas on this.
What I would like to have the ability to do is when creating a model, designate the model as a LED (or incan) prop. The user fields would then allow entry for how many colors are on the prop, and what those colors are (since they would be constant). Xlights would then create the prop with only one instance showing on the layout screen, but would provide as many sequencing lines of control as there are colors on the prop, with the ability to drop effects on any of the colors. Possibly the 'single color' option could be enhanced to provide the capability I am looking for? ;D
If I create a mini tree with 4 colors, red, green, blue, and white. I drop two effects, one on red and one on green. How do you display that? Do you combine the colors, or try and show both at the same time. If the latter, how do you do that? If the first, isn't that confusing? Creating multiple models is better.
James
I need to clarify, my original post was actually referring to the potential time saved creating a layout with hundreds of AC channels. (I have 370 - took many hours to build it creating 3 or 4 models for lots of elements, then having to align them all perfectly.(My OCD kicks in) Just looking for ways to save time and end up with the same result.
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Remember that xlights was created to assist in programming thousands of channels needed for RGB lights. AC light support is pretty much an afterthought and some things have been added to make it easier on AC channels, but supporting AC channels is not what this software was designed to do and AC channels, while not going away are, in my opinion, a dying breed. I never found it easy to make my layout back in my LOR and then vixen days either.
Before I went all RGB, I did exactly what the others have suggested - made multiple models (painful) and finally just cheated and made a single model calling it a 4 channel RGBW string knowing that the colors would not look right on the preview but it would at least show my lighting timing and that was the most important issue. The layout preview is primarily to assist you in doing sequencing and for positioning props for whole house type effects. Just give up the idea that it has to be a true preview and you will be a lot happier IMHO.
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Remember that xlights was created to assist in programming thousands of channels needed for RGB lights. AC light support is pretty much an afterthought and some things have been added to make it easier on AC channels, but supporting AC channels is not what this software was designed to do and AC channels, while not going away are, in my opinion, a dying breed. I never found it easy to make my layout back in my LOR and then vixen days either.
Before I went all RGB, I did exactly what the others have suggested - made multiple models (painful) and finally just cheated and made a single model calling it a 4 channel RGBW string knowing that the colors would not look right on the preview but it would at least show my lighting timing and that was the most important issue. The layout preview is primarily to assist you in doing sequencing and for positioning props for whole house type effects. Just give up the idea that it has to be a true preview and you will be a lot happier IMHO.
No way. My preview is scaled for my actual display (my OCD won't let me do it any other way) and I spend hours building it. I'm not letting Gil off the hook that easily. He asked me what I was looking for, and I have shared my idea. What do you think Gil? Can you, a la Captain Picard 'Make it so'?
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The idea has to fit within the xLights framework. So to accomplish this its still a single model with multiple channels where you want each channel to be a different color. All models must be able to have effects dropped onto them so the question would still be how would be render an RGB effect dropped on a model that had say 6 different color channels?
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The idea has to fit within the xLights framework. So to accomplish this its still a single model with multiple channels where you want each channel to be a different color. All models must be able to have effects dropped onto them so the question would still be how would be render an RGB effect dropped on a model that had say 6 different color channels?
Not quite sure why you are asking me how to accomplish coding in xlights. You guys are the brains behind it, I'm just asking if it can be done. If it absolutely can not, then just say so, and I will move on. ::)
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I guess you don't get my question. It's not a question about how to code something its trying to get you to think about the design requirements. Just think about how a single channel model works right now. If you define a single channel red model and drop a green effect on it then it does nothing. The question of what should that model do when the green effect is dropped in not a question of how to code it...it's a question of how should the program behave when a particular action is done. Some people don't like that they drop green and we don't automatically switch it to red. The point I'm making is when you drop an effect it will have an R, G, and B component for the color defined in the effect. So if you define a model with more than just red, green, and blue channels then you will have some channels that are a combination of two or three of those primary colors. If I drop a red On effect at the model level should it do anything to a purple channel or only red channels? What would a purple On effect do to a red channel? If you let us just do whatever we want then you'll just be back here complaining if you don't like our design decision.
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I guess you don't get my question. It's not a question about how to code something its trying to get you to think about the design requirements. Just think about how a single channel model works right now. If you define a single channel red model and drop a green effect on it then it does nothing. The question of what should that model do when the green effect is dropped in not a question of how to code it...it's a question of how should the program behave when a particular action is done. Some people don't like that they drop green and we don't automatically switch it to red. The point I'm making is when you drop an effect it will have an R, G, and B component for the color defined in the effect. So if you define a model with more than just red, green, and blue channels then you will have some channels that are a combination of two or three of those primary colors. If I drop a red On effect at the model level should it do anything to a purple channel or only red channels? What would a purple On effect do to a red channel? If you let us just do whatever we want then you'll just be back here complaining if you don't like our design decision.
Hmm, (light goes on) I would want the channels to respond to having an 'On' effect, for example, regardless of the color of the On, as that channel can only ever be the native color (Red, Green, Blue). If I use a fade up or down, same thing, Red channel can only be Red. These LED models would respond to commands regardless of color, not blending like Pixels do. This will limit the effects that can be dropped on them, but since they are LED's, they already have some limits when used with xlights.
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So a green channel can be any shade from 0 to 255. If I drop purple which is R=128, G=0, B=255 then what value goes onto that green channel? The green channel in that color is 0, red is half brightness, and blue is full brightness. Average the 3 values?
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So a green channel can be any shade from 0 to 255. If I drop purple which is R=128, G=0, B=255 then what value goes onto that green channel? The green channel in that color is 0, red is half brightness, and blue is full brightness. Average the 3 values?
We're still not on the same page...... ;D These are single color LED's. They can only be 1 color.
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No a single color LED can be 256 shades of that color...read my question again.
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If you send a 255 to an A/C channel its full brightness. If you send 128 to an A/C channel it's half brightness. There are 255 brightness levels for an A/C led.
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If you send a 255 to an A/C channel its full brightness. If you send 128 to an A/C channel it's half brightness. There are 255 brightness levels for an A/C led.
What is the point of this reply?
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If you send a 255 to an A/C channel its full brightness. If you send 128 to an A/C channel it's half brightness. There are 255 brightness levels for an A/C led.
What is the point of this reply?
Randy you do know that a single channel is an 8 bit value right? That means we send a value anywhere between 0-255 for the channel. The higher the number the brighter the LED. Its not just on or off like you keep implying. I guess you could have LEDs that are only On/Off but most of us use controllers where the LEDs are dimmable so that you can do ramping. So I wanted you to realize it's not clear what the program should do when you drop a purple effect onto a green channel. Do we send out a 255, or a 128, or a 0?
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Gil, I didn't say it can only be on or off, I said it can only be one color, which is the native color of the LED that I am using. I actually use some of these new fangled controllers that dim my lights. I quit using the light switch on the wall a while ago.
Gil, you got me, I give up. It's obvious that you really don't want to work on this enhancement for us. Thanks for nothing.
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You're right I was never going to work on it but I'm not the only developer. I was trying to get you to think about it because the request has a lot of ambiguity when it comes to implementing it. If the idea was vetted with more details maybe one of them would pick it up and work on it. You're getting all mad at me but think about this...the others guys all ignored you.
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Reading this thread, I have fond memories of working with IT consultants on an ERP project at work! The language barrier between the 'guru' and the 'lay person'. :)
I can definitely see what Gilrock is getting at regarding dropping a purple 'on' effect on a green led. If the green RGB value is '0' then should the led be on, off or somewhere in between?
Personally when sequencing my AC channels I try to use the correct color where possible, and use what ever I set up for multicolor strings.
Sorry for poking my nose in!!
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You're right I was never going to work on it but I'm not the only developer.
Nuff said........
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Reading this thread, I have fond memories of working with IT consultants on an ERP project at work! The language barrier between the 'guru' and the 'lay person'. :)
I can definitely see what Gilrock is getting at regarding dropping a purple 'on' effect on a green led. If the green RGB value is '0' then should the led be on, off or somewhere in between?
Personally when sequencing my AC channels I try to use the correct color where possible, and use what ever I set up for multicolor strings.
Sorry for poking my nose in!!
Yes, I am a 'lay person' but, my point is, no matter which color you drop on an AC element, it is always going to be the color of the element - can't be any other way. Not sure who is not understanding whom here......... 8)
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Feel free to jump in because I often don't explain what I'm thinking very well. Currently with our Single Color models if you dropped a purple effect on a Single Color Green string it wouldn't turn it on because the green component of purple's RGB value is 0. That's why we steer users to use White because it will always turn on any Single Color string model. We also already have an RGBW string type but it only allows you to turn on the RGB channels or the W channel....you can never turn on all 4 at the same time. I've seen videos of how people sequence in LOR for RGBW superstrings and they place effects on each channel so LOR knows exactly what to do the with data. We would be able to do the same thing for effects at the channel/node level but what's unclear is what we would do with strand and model level effects. The idea just doesn't fit well with our current engine and I don't have a good solution or it would have probably been done months ago. But in reality we are not going to add any significant enhancements till January.
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Geez, I already gave up........... nuff said......... ::)
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Geez, I already gave up........... nuff said......... ::)
I'll quit replying when the thread doesn't show up in my unread threads list.
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Reading this thread, I have fond memories of working with IT consultants on an ERP project at work! The language barrier between the 'guru' and the 'lay person'. :)
I can definitely see what Gilrock is getting at regarding dropping a purple 'on' effect on a green led. If the green RGB value is '0' then should the led be on, off or somewhere in between?
Personally when sequencing my AC channels I try to use the correct color where possible, and use what ever I set up for multicolor strings.
Sorry for poking my nose in!!
Yes, I am a 'lay person' but, my point is, no matter which color you drop on an AC element, it is always going to be the color of the element - can't be any other way. Not sure who is not understanding whom here......... 8)
I am a 'lay person' too, I feel the pain from both sides of this issue!!
It does matter what color you drop on an AC element because of the way that the program interprets the color.
XLights was desir RGB so when you drop a color, it is made up of the RGB values.Therefore, using Gilrocks example, if you drop a purple on a green element you will not get any lights as the green value in purple is '0'.
When you set up the AC channel in XLights it asks you to give it a color, that determines what the program thinks the color of the element should be.
It was not my intention to upset you, rather I wanted to try and help!
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Reading this thread, I have fond memories of working with IT consultants on an ERP project at work! The language barrier between the 'guru' and the 'lay person'. :)
I can definitely see what Gilrock is getting at regarding dropping a purple 'on' effect on a green led. If the green RGB value is '0' then should the led be on, off or somewhere in between?
Personally when sequencing my AC channels I try to use the correct color where possible, and use what ever I set up for multicolor strings.
Sorry for poking my nose in!!
Yes, I am a 'lay person' but, my point is, no matter which color you drop on an AC element, it is always going to be the color of the element - can't be any other way. Not sure who is not understanding whom here......... 8)
But the amount of power sent to that color is zero then you don't get any light!!
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Randy
xLights can accommodate this now. It's a mental challenge to accept the way the program operates from the way you think it should operate. I along with many others had a similar challenge when converting from LOR years ago.
Once I let go of the way it used to be done and embraced the way it is done, I never have looked back or gone back to the old way. Again, you can program those models today with xLights. It might not be the way your brain's workflow pattern is accustomed to. The mental hurdle is the biggest one to climb and once you do, it's smooth sailing from there.
Good luck!
-Steve
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Randy
xLights can accommodate this now. It's a mental challenge to accept the way the program operates from the way you think it should operate. I along with many others had a similar challenge when converting from LOR years ago.
Once I let go of the way it used to be done and embraced the way it is done, I never have looked back or gone back to the old way. Again, you can program those models today with xLights. It might not be the way your brain's workflow pattern is accustomed to. The mental hurdle is the biggest one to climb and once you do, it's smooth sailing from there.
Good luck!
-Steve
Steve, apparently I am coming across as a stubborn Vixen user not willing to evolve in to the 21st century...... do I feel Vixen was easier, sure, can it even romotely approach what xlights can do, heck no. (although, I do feel, being a boomer, that xlights has exponentialy more capability than I will ever be able to utilize). I accept that xlights operates on a totaly different architecture than Vixen, LOR, etc.
You say xlights can do now that I am asking for........
Please explain to me how xlights can now create 4 instances (colors) of an AC LED model without me manually creating it 4 times in the layout, and be able to assign each instance one of those 4 colors in the preview? I rely on my preview to give me an accurate picture of what my sequences will look like in real life. I know many don't, but many also do.
I will say it again, I am only looking for a way to make building a layout easier and faster. If that won't work, someone just say so.
Thanks,
Randy
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Reading this thread, I have fond memories of working with IT consultants on an ERP project at work! The language barrier between the 'guru' and the 'lay person'. :)
I can definitely see what Gilrock is getting at regarding dropping a purple 'on' effect on a green led. If the green RGB value is '0' then should the led be on, off or somewhere in between?
Personally when sequencing my AC channels I try to use the correct color where possible, and use what ever I set up for multicolor strings.
Sorry for poking my nose in!!
Yes, I am a 'lay person' but, my point is, no matter which color you drop on an AC element, it is always going to be the color of the element - can't be any other way. Not sure who is not understanding whom here......... 8)
I am a 'lay person' too, I feel the pain from both sides of this issue!!
It does matter what color you drop on an AC element because of the way that the program interprets the color.
XLights was desir RGB so when you drop a color, it is made up of the RGB values.Therefore, using Gilrocks example, if you drop a purple on a green element you will not get any lights as the green value in purple is '0'.
When you set up the AC channel in XLights it asks you to give it a color, that determines what the program thinks the color of the element should be.
It was not my intention to upset you, rather I wanted to try and help!
I know that you were only trying to help, and I appreciate it. ;D
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Vixen might be easier for AC channels. I'd still like to see a video of how you setup a 4 color model in Vixen and how it works when sequenced at the channel and model level.
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Vixen might be easier for AC channels. I'd still like to see a video of how you setup a 4 color model in Vixen and how it works when sequenced at the channel and model level.
I now personally know the definition of insanity...........
You want a video? You're one of the big brains, how bout you download it and try it yourself. Should be easy for you........... 8)
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Do you really expect help with how you've been responding?
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I was going to turn on an episode of Grey's Anatomy there's a lot more drama here. I have my popcorn ready don't let me stop you
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Do you really expect help with how you've been responding?
Like I've gotten any so far? >:(
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I thought we gave you lots of good info. So just exit that grumpy old man mode and start talking sensibly.
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I will stop being a grumpy old man when you stop being the petulant child...............
If you want to play the dozens, game on.
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Feel free to start talking about the thread topic if you still remember what it was....lol.
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Feel free to start talking about the thread topic if you still remember what it was....lol.
And you are how old? Unless you forgot, it was about Jo.