Having trouble with Timing tracks and models not agreeing with output.

[andywylde]

I have watched both Dan and Gils videos and thought I had pretty much followed Gils to the T.  I am having a lot of trouble updating the various settings. I Initially didn't think it was working at all, but after watching Gills video about the 3rd time I tried messing with the color settings and something that looks like what I expected now appears.  I don't understand it still, but it works.

My problems seem to be with seemingly random affects overwriting the timing tracks.  I understand the sparkle and such, but no matter what setting I set the eyes for they don't seem to ever change after adding the coro face to the model.  Oddly, one model has eyes open, the other has them closed and they just blink on and off every once in a while.  Changing the settting and using "Update" doesn't seem to change much. but some things move around on the sequence every time I do it, whether I have changed anything or not. 

I even tried adding the actual channel (upper eyelid, lower eyelid) to the phoneme with no success.   Also, if you change the name of a channel it does not update into the faces of the model and doesn't work (I figured this one out myself).

A lot of things don't update back and forth, but this is such a great update I can live with deleting objects and adding them back in after modifying which seems to fix a lot.   I just can't seem to figure out how to get rid of all the random stuff and control the eyes to any reasonable level.

Also, I think there is a bug when you don't use one (or more) of your inputs in the model and that channel doesn't appear at all in the sequencer and the output destined for it goes to the next channel.  I accidentally left out one string and I got the one after it coming on when it should have. Only seven of my eight channels appeared in the sequencer which was a clue although they were labeled correctly.

[andywylde]

Also, when I change the timing track after creating the coro face object it does not update the timing.  It works with the one set when I insert it, but once I have it changing to a different timing (lyric) track and clicking update seems to have no affect although some random stuff happens.

[andywylde]

Actually never mind that last post.  It appears you need to select the coro thing so it turns purple.  Tripple click seems to do it, then changing timing will work.  I can live with that.

[gerry]

Hello Andy,

I think that you are making some fundamental mistake, as have done quite a few now and it works quite well.

A few things to check. Have you ensured that the colour selected when u drop the Coro face is white ?
Have you assigned the Lyrics timing mark or whatever u called it go the coro face via the effects ie it is not blank?
Outline yes and wyes set go open ? Qnd words broken down to phemones ?

[Gilrock]

Yeah it shouldn't take all that work.  Are you mainly talking about getting eye blinking to work in Papagayo?  Your description didn't really talk about what you were doing.  You didn't mention doing Papagayo faces so I'm only guessing because you mentioned eyelids.  Just remember when you post we aren't staring over your shoulder so pretend you are telling a blind person what you are doing.

[andywylde]

Gerry, of course I am doing something stupid, or as you put it more nicely "making some fundamental mistake", that's why I'm here.

I'm sorry if my description was not good.  As you probably know after spending hours staring at something that doesn't work you think everyone sees what is in your head.  The actual problem was that the auto eye blinking was all I got, I couldn't set the eyes to open or shut.

I figured out the problem, or at least a work around.   I went back to my model and deleted all the face movements and added them back in.   Once I did that adding the coro face to the model worked as expected. 

I think the problem is not having the Names tab update the Face movements in the Models Window.  If you change name assignments after already creating the face movements they do not get updated in the face tab.   In my case I inadvertently left out one channel the first time and then went back and added it in.  I think it somehow in this process lost the Name to Channel mapping.

Now that my models are set I don't expect I will have this problem again, but for people just starting out who may need to tweak their models after already creating face movements it would be nice to update them when you change the names.   Or at least put a warning that they need to delete them from the face movements and add them back in if they change them.  I noticed it because I had a typo on one of the names and it did not get changed in the face movements (and didn't work) but otherwise there was no clue this was the problem on the eyes.  This does by the way fix all models previously inserted but I needed to click on the coro face for it to update to the sequence.

Thanks again, this is a great addition to XL/NC

[gerry]

Hello Andy,
I  think that I did update my channel mappings for the face at some stage . You have to render all or save for it to take affect .peehaps  as  you said  , somehow some channel mappings got lost when you did the update.

The only other possibility I am aware of is sometimes u have to delete the fseq file if adding channels. Not sure if that was the cause here.

I was trying to guess exactly what your problem was , and normally the cause iis even simpler ...as I posted, that's what I meant.

Glad that you got yours to work.

[andywylde]

Hi Gerry. can you clarify this statement?

"The only other possibility I am aware of is sometimes u have to delete the fseq file if adding channels. Not sure if that was the cause here."

I try to start with the simplest case and add to it once things are working to simplify troubleshooting.  So I started with one face, got it working then added another.    I am not aware of this workaround.  I deleted some of the lyrics from my timing tracks and now I am having trouble adding the "coro face" object to my models.  Maybe this will help?

[andywylde]

Update, Xlights was working kind of strange (red lines all over sequencer display) , so I saved and exited.  Voice (coro face) tracks disappeared (most but not all).  I cant add the coro face object back to my models now.

[andywylde]

Ignore last post, I had to select first voice, then it would let me add coro face object.

[andywylde]

But I did lose all existing ones on save.

[gerry]

Update, Xlights was working kind of strange (red lines all over sequencer display) , so I saved and exited.  Voice (coro face) tracks disappeared (most but not all).  I cant add the coro face object back to my models now.

Red lights - do you have multiple timing tracks defined ? If yes , when sequencing the Coro faces , ensure that you select the "lyrics" tracks AND deselect the other ones , else you cant drop the face effect where u want it to.

When exiting , make sure u say "yes" to the prompts to save the seq as well as models etc.   

[gerry]

But I did lose all existing ones on save.

hello Andy,

What (existing one things) did you lose when you Saved ? I have done a number of sequences including Jokes for Dan since this was released and this component is rock solid - would like to help u get there.

Can u please attach a screen print of your sequencer page at the beginning of your song. Would like to see what you have so far. And also your effects window for the Face ie click on the face effect on the sequence , then when the effects window gets focus  screen print that.

 

[andywylde]

Hi Gerry, thanks for your help.  The red bars were vertical and flickering all over the sequencer window.  When I saved it kept the lyrics track and timing but lost all the tracks for the models.  That wasn't that hard to recreated, as long as it kept the timing track.    Sorry I didn't do a screen capture. 

So here is a capture of my screen so far.  I have four timing tracks now and only have 3 models defined so far.  I was doing Queen Bohemian Rhapsody So I have a timing track for each band member.  My biggest problem now is adding a timing on the other timing tracks.  I can import lyrics just fine, but despite watching Daniel's video 10 times I can't seem to figure out how he just selects a spot and adds timing.  Once its there I have no problem clicking and changing the lyrics, but I just can't seem to add a timing track in a particular spot like he did and then put the lyrics I want to use in it.

BTW, I have to exit nutcracker a couple times a night and restart since using this plugin -- a problem I have never had before.  I love the plugin, but rock solid is not a word I would use to describe it.

[Gilrock]

All that your describing about flashing and losing tracks that's not normal and could indicate other issues with your PC.  You gotta click the circle to activate a timing track before you can add timings and make sure you unclick all the other ones.  Then just click somewhere in the waveform and hit "t" or drag out a selection in the waveform and hit "t".  Double-click a timing effect to edit it's words.