Using only xlights/nutcracker

[toozie21]

I'm a n00b and have been trolling and reading/posting as I get up to speed on the world of pixels.  I am about 1/2 way done with the recent intro video (thanks for doing that, it is great so far), and I was curious of something.  Sean mentioned that he (and some others) only use xlights/nutcracker for their shows (no HLS, LOR, etc.). 

Right now all I plan on doing is making a matrix for doing a countdown and other simple effect.  So what I am wondering is if this is something that could also be done with just xlights.  I am trying to make my setup as simple as possible right now, and removing a layer from design seems like a good idea. 

If this is a case where I can use this standalone, is there some documentation on that somewhere (I know a lot of the stuff focuses more on using it in conjunction with other software)?

Thanks for the new forum!  It is a great idea.

[Onesmoothhead]

It is a great question and yes you could just use xLights/Nutcracker. In simple terms you would build your element (Matrix) and then use effects to do as needed with the element. You can then save it and use it in xLights scheduler.

That is really pretty much the ease of using xLights/Nutcracker. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will help both of us. 

The reason you may see other people using xLights/Nutcracker and another sequencing program is history.
Example: I have been using Vixen for over 5 years.  I have a significant DMX network of lights built over those 5 years (386channels). With sequencing times in my past being 3-5 hours for every minute of music, I have chosen to just add elements every year. When I first started with RGB the sequencing time was closer to 50 plus hours for very simple movements. Then Nutcracker came along and over the last couple of years it has been growing into a leading software. Even more true now that xLights has combined with Nutcracker.  I now use xLights/Nutcracker to add RGB elements to my original vixen sequences. I then convert them back to xLights/Nutcracker to use in the scheduler.  xLights scheduler is flawless for me and I have used it from its inception.  Good luck and ask lots of questions.  I hope this is not to confusing or off subject. 

[sean]

I'm a n00b and have been trolling and reading/posting as I get up to speed on the world of pixels.  I am about 1/2 way done with the recent intro video (thanks for doing that, it is great so far), and I was curious of something.  Sean mentioned that he (and some others) only use xlights/nutcracker for their shows (no HLS, LOR, etc.). 

Right now all I plan on doing is making a matrix for doing a countdown and other simple effect.  So what I am wondering is if this is something that could also be done with just xlights.  I am trying to make my setup as simple as possible right now, and removing a layer from design seems like a good idea. 

If this is a case where I can use this standalone, is there some documentation on that somewhere (I know a lot of the stuff focuses more on using it in conjunction with other software)?

Thanks for the new forum!  It is a great idea.

there are some people
aaron, dave,zach myself and i am sure others who just used xlights.nutcracker as the sequencer. this really works best if most of your show is rgb. all of us are in the 20-40K channel range. when the shows get large, the other sequencers bog down. I think HLS is another sequencer that can do large channel counts but i have not used it.

we owe matt brown a big thanks for designing the architecture  for xlights/nutcracker in a way that it scales to such large channel counts. i had nothing to do with this. You can model and run 60K channel displays.

either xlights as a player or the pi player as a player both can play large channel count shows.

there are plans to make a master/slave pi player. give each pi responsible for something like 30-60K channels and then get another if you need higher channel count. we are targeting 100-120K channels as a use case. If we get it to work with that then all the smaller shows should not have issues.

we barely had anyone with more than 10K channels in 2012. 2013 saw dozens approaching the 20-30K channels. so to stay ahead of the curve we will work on the > 100K channels for 2014.

[toozie21]

It is a great question and yes you could just use xLights/Nutcracker. In simple terms you would build your element (Matrix) and then use effects to do as needed with the element. You can then save it and use it in xLights scheduler.

That is really pretty much the ease of using xLights/Nutcracker. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will help both of us. 

The reason you may see other people using xLights/Nutcracker and another sequencing program is history.
Example: I have been using Vixen for over 5 years.  I have a significant DMX network of lights built over those 5 years (386channels). With sequencing times in my past being 3-5 hours for every minute of music, I have chosen to just add elements every year. When I first started with RGB the sequencing time was closer to 50 plus hours for very simple movements. Then Nutcracker came along and over the last couple of years it has been growing into a leading software. Even more true now that xLights has combined with Nutcracker.  I now use xLights/Nutcracker to add RGB elements to my original vixen sequences. I then convert them back to xLights/Nutcracker to use in the scheduler.  xLights scheduler is flawless for me and I have used it from its inception.  Good luck and ask lots of questions.  I hope this is not to confusing or off subject.

Not confusing at all, that pretty much summed it up for me.  I don't do a show, all my stuff is generally homemade, but not synced (mechanically animated displays, animated wireframes, etc.).  When I wanted to replace my incandescent countdown clock, I thought I would dabble int the pixel world as it opened up so many additional possibilities, and would be more expandable in the future.  I have NO IDEA what I was in for!  I don't want to not be expandable in the future, so I am trying to lay a good groundwork of knowledge and hardware now, but I also want to K.I.S.S. so as to not have too much overkill or complexity.  A 50x13 matrix is not a small amount of channels, but it also is MUCH below the number use in a whole house display.

I sort of wondered if the holdover to the other tools was the people who did all the work in the past on Vixen (etc.), so that was good to clear up so I don't feel like I have to use those other tools.

there are some people
aaron, dave,zach myself and i am sure others who just used xlights.nutcracker as the sequencer. this really works best if most of your show is rgb. all of us are in the 20-40K channel range. when the shows get large, the other sequencers bog down. I think HLS is another sequencer that can do large channel counts but i have not used it.

we owe matt brown a big thanks for designing the architecture  for xlights/nutcracker in a way that it scales to such large channel counts. i had nothing to do with this. You can model and run 60K channel displays.

either xlights as a player or the pi player as a player both can play large channel count shows.

there are plans to make a master/slave pi player. give each pi responsible for something like 30-60K channels and then get another if you need higher channel count. we are targeting 100-120K channels as a use case. If we get it to work with that then all the smaller shows should not have issues.

we barely had anyone with more than 10K channels in 2012. 2013 saw dozens approaching the 20-30K channels. so to stay ahead of the curve we will work on the > 100K channels for 2014.

As far as the PC is concerned, the matrix will be the only thing in my show, so I will be ONLY RGB at this point (and I assume any additions in the future will be RBG as well).

One final question (for now, there will always be more!), you mention xlights and the pi player separately.  I assume you are talking about the falconpiplayer.  Wouldn't xlights be running on that?  Or did I misunderstand that, and if you use the pi player, you use their sequencer?

Thanks everyone, you all have been very helpful for helping to get me up to speed!

[sean]

"One final question (for now, there will always be more!), you mention xlights and the pi player separately.  I assume you are talking about the falconpiplayer.  Wouldn't xlights be running on that?  Or did I misunderstand that, and if you use the pi player, you use their sequencer?"

no., well maybe.

dave wrote a linux based software program for playing sequences. Its sole purpose, play a show. He and mykroft wrote this in the spring of 2013. They called this free software the FPP, Falcon Pi Player.

dan kulp went and compiled xlights ro run on the raspberry pi in the fall of 2013. This means there were two schedulers that could run on the pi
1) The Falcon Pi Player
2) xLights scheduler (without the nutcracker tab)
 Dan did this because there was lag in the Pi Player code. He was protecting himself in preparation for his Halloween show. Capt Murdock took on the task of finding and fixing the lag in Pi player. By one week before Halloween, Cpat Murfock had a new version. the Pi player could play a 3 minute song with at most one frame of lag. When that happened Dan Kulp went back to using the Pi Player and used it for Halloween. His xlights code still runs on the pi, but no one is pursuing that path.

because the pi player runs on linux machines there are plans to get it working on another computer, the beagle black. This means the show software called "Falcon Pi Player" will work on either
the raspberry pi http://www.adafruit.com/products/998
or
the beagle black. https://www.adafruit.com/products/1278

the pi player team continues to add more features. I think it will become the go to show player for many people in 2014.

[toozie21]

the pi player team continues to add more features. I think it will become the go to show player for many people in 2014.

Thank you for the breakdown Sean.  So if I understand this all right, I can assume that you aren't using the FPP right (since you use NC as your sequencer)? Just curious what a pro in the community uses.

[sean]

i think you have to remember we call it xlights/nutcracker.
this is because xlights was written in 2010 to be a scheduler and a player.

in 2013 matt added a tab called nutcracker. Nutcracker does the sequencing.

So for my show in 2013, i used nutcracker to create my show i then exported each song as a pi player *.fseq file.

I ran my Halloween and Christmas shows using the FPP.

here was my christmas show setup

[JonB256]

So if I understand this all right, I can assume that you aren't using the FPP right (since you use NC as your sequencer)? Just curious what a pro in the community uses.

Toozie, my physical setup is virtually identical to Sean's. (I don't use an audio board, though)
The difference for me is sequencing. I have many songs done in the LOR sequencing software. I kept those mostly unchanged as I added a lot of RGB (a 40x30 matrix and a 16x60 tree) to my songs.

My workflow was to convert my LOR sequences (LMS extension) to xLights format (xseq extension). Then, using the Nutcracker software, I added in my RGB. Once happy with how it looked in Preview, I converted it to the Falcon Pi player format (fseq extension) and copied it to the Pi Player along with the music.

I ran my entire show (Halloween and Christmas) from the Pi Player. It was "smooth as buttah"

JonB

[toozie21]

Sean/Jon,

Thanks for the info.  OK, I think I see where I was a little slow.  This is what I currently think is going on:
*You can sequence with LOR, Vixen, etc., but Nutcracker is becoming the new norm due to speed of sequencing.  You can create things in nutcracker and then export them back into other tools (like Vixen), or you can take your other tools' previously made designs and import them into nutcracker
*For scheduling, you need a scheduler.  xLights happens to be one, but the new scheduler picking up steam is the falconpiplayer (which runs on a raspberry pi)

OK so far?

So if I want to make a countdown and/or have some simple matrix effects for my small matrix.  There is no need to mess with HLS right now, I can just design everything in nutcracker, create a sequence, export to the FPP, and run the show from there.  That seems right?

If so, is nutcracker/FPP able to play a "show" that basically runs day/night for 2 months (how long I keep my countdown up)?  I assume that there is some way to make a "show" (say I show the countdown for 5 minutes, show some animation, show the countdown for 5 minutes, show a different animation), and just repeat that series of events for infinity?