Method of sequencing

[Traneman]

I have used Vixen 3 the past several years. I am going to a 49 panel P10 Matrix and need to learn Xlights.

I have watched videos and tutorials till my eyes are popping out.

I have gotten through all the setup and have all my models ,Groups and preview setup not too many problems there.

What Iam having a tough time on now is actually sequencing,getting the timing marks in the right place and
what effect I want to put where.

Is there another tutorial or post that I could watch that would maybe make this CLICK

Thanks

[Gilrock]

I'll just toss out the thought that you don't need timing marks to sequence.  You can just turn off the timing track and then you can drag an effect onto the grid and drop it.  It will be 1 second wide so you can grab a handle and make it larger.  You can move it around the grid with the arrow keys.  I do a lot of my sequencing without timing marks.  For placing timing marks I usually just use the Bars and Beats plugin option when creating a timing track.  Also just click in the waveform and hit "t" and it will place a timing mark if you have a timing track selected that's not a fixed timing grid.  Don't like where the timing mark is just grab the edge and move it.

[sean]

There are many methods for sequencing. I do think mst load a waveform up and then mark timing and then drop effects.

As Gil said you could just drop effects without timing marks.

For myself, I play the music once to hear the music phrases. I then play it again and type "t" to mark the timing marks. Since pressing "t" usually has lag because my fingers are not fast enough , I go back and tweak timing marks. I also , sometimes, use Audacity Bars and Beats to

Now I go and drop effects. I also sometimes use Audacity timing marks.

Lilia, my wife, does it yet another way. She listens to music and then highlights a section where a music phrase will start. She then plays that section and clicks to set a timing mark and tweaks it. She has never used the audacity plugin and she never uses a beat track. She then starts putting effects but she doesnt start at the beginning. She might mark up the middle or mark up the end. She then goes back and fills in the missing sections.

So all of us have our own method, explore and find yours

[Phrog30]

PM me. I have a few things going on this week, but maybe we can do a teamviewer session.

James

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[jnealand]

Put your location in your signature and profile.  Maybe there is someone not too far from you that you could meet up with.

[logandc99]

The other thing you could do is look at some of the sequences that have been shared on the forum here as that might give you a bit of an idea about how different xlights effects are applied to different models to create different lighting effects .

[Traneman]

Thanks everyone, I updated my profile also.
James maybe sometime next week I will take you up on your offer.
Sean, I am glad you mentioned how your wife sequences, I have often heard a part of a song in the middle or at the end and can picture in my mind how I want to do that part. But then I get stuck getting to that part. I have no idea why I never thought about bouncing around in a song and filling it in.

Thanks for all the help guys, its kinda scary jumping to a new sequencer.

[plaberge]

Others have provided suggestions on timing marks. I've used all of the methods mentioned at various times depending on the song and what I am trying to achieve.

Here is a couple of ways that I go about figuring out "what an effect to put in there." Sorry, this post is a bit longer than I wanted.

Step #1, as suggested by logandc99, is I spend some time looking at shared sequences under General >> Show Assets to get some ideas. Often, I will see some cool effects that I can just copy into a sequence. I also look at as many uploaded videos as I can find.

The easiest way to start a sequence is to create a bunch of effects. Select some cells, right click and select "Create Random Effects." You can do this for your entire display, but I find what works best for me is only to do this for my primary display element, usually my mega-tree. I then go through each effect, accept it as is, try to tweak it or often, delete and generate a new random effect. Once I have a bunch of these, I will typically reorder them so "match" the music better. For example, I would put a fast effect with a fast music segment.

I don't like a lot of switching between effects, so I try to create some continuity by setting up some variants of each effect that I then use for a few phrases, and occasionally a few beats. As an example, for a spiral, I may start with two colors, say red and green, then create a red and blue and blue and green variant. When place these in consecutive phrases or beats, the effect stays the same while the colors change. This simple technique can provide an almost infinite number of variants. I repeat this until I have part or all of the song sequenced. Look at my Carol of the Bells sequence https://vimeo.com/82612008 to see examples of this technique - http://nutcracker123.com/forum/index.php?topic=794.0 for the XML.

You can repeat the above for other for the other elements in your display., Often I just copy the effects directly - they look very different depending on the element, or I may just choose to use a solid color that matches the primary element. Using this approach, I can come up with a sequence very quickly.

One of the great features of Xlights is model groups. By using these, you can very simply create a very usable show in a very short time. Check out Auld Lang Syne https://vimeo.com/149308700, http://nutcracker123.com/forum/index.php?topic=2438.0 for the XML. It uses one model group for everything but the matrix, arches, lawn stakes and star bursts. With the new render style that was recently added to Xlights, I could now combine some of those elements together and further simplify the model.

If you are looking to do something a little bit more deliberate, I suggest that you spend a bit more time studying the shared sequences (or any of the many sequences on Youtube or Vimeo.) When I look at sequences, I try to understand what the author was seeking to do. Was it mainly keeping the beat? Showing off some cool effects? Creating some mood? Telling a story? Showcasing part of their display? Creating a sing-along? etc. I try to see how the sequence flows with the music: is there a discernable beginning, middle and end to the sequence? I also look at how colors are used, what are the primary colors and how are the complementary colors used.

What happens next is, of course, different for every song and every person. For me, it starts with the song. In some cases, I want to tell a story, so I try to come up with various effects that do that. The story can be an illustration of the words of the song., e.g., my Trim up the Tree sequence https://vimeo.com/149112799 (pm me if you want to XML). Or it can be something more abstract, e.g., such as the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy Salmon https://vimeo.com/56966182. The sky is the limit here, Logan Carpenter's Star Wars - Uptown Funk creation is one of the best I've seen so far - here's my adaptation https://vimeo.com/149308700 (Logan's original sequence: http://nutcracker123.com/forum/index.php?topic=2175.0) but there are many other videos, including Logan's original that have been upload.

This is not the be all, end all, but I hope it gives you some ideas of how to start. And once you do, don't forget to share so others can learn from you.

[danj]

My method--I start with setting timing marks.   I probably overdo this, but I figure once I have several good sets of timing marks (e.g., manual, bars/beats, onsets, etc....), then I have a really good starting point.   I usually select some models and apply random effects to them, to "see" how the timings are looking visually.  I then "eat the elephant one piece at a time", model by model.  I leave all the models up and running in the sequencer display window even though I develop my sequences model by model.  Sometimes I will open up the model window too so I am seeing one model or model group, but I don't do that very much.  After I have gone through the song model by model, I then usually have to go back and tweak on some stuff to improve how everything "meshes up" as the "whole house model" seen as the display.  I am one of the ones who spends probably 20-30 hours (or more) per song.  I hope this helps.    Lots of ways to skin the cat, for sure.
One hard lesson learned from a few years ago--I had a PC drive flake out on me (I forget the details) and I had not backed up my files anywhere else, so I lost many hours of effort.   That won't happen to me again!!!!

[logandc99]

I tend to listen to a song over and over, often driving to and from work. In doing so I listen to different parts/instruments/ beats and imagine how those various parts would best be displayed on the elements I know I have in the display. Some parts of a song/sequence really stand out as no brainers, like in the Star wars sequence - Darth's breathing portrayed by the fade in and fade out of the whole house in blue to simulate breathing, and the light sabers in the megatree. The columns usually just accentuate beats whilst the leaping arches accentuate rythym. Often I'll use the roof stars for "twinkly" like sounds, the bells for bell sounds etc. The roof stars and icicles are good for up and down the scale bits etc.
So I will often leap around all over the place when doing a sequence and pick out parts of the song that I feel really suit a particualr element or elements, then move to another part of the song that I think other elements will work well with  and so on and then go back through and fill up all the gaps until the sequence is complete.
I do use a bars and beats track for the basic rythym and the Queen Mary plugin works pretty well for that - just needs a bit of tweaking at times.
I agree with the comments above that some kind of continuity between changes in effects is a good idea especially in the same parts of a song, like all in the chorus or all in the verse. But sudden changes in effects can also be quite effective especially when moving from verse to chorus or in more sudden changes in the beat.
In the end, I guess people just end up using what works best for them as I think everyone's brain works differently and dissects a song/sequence in different ways. Some are more methodical  and others are a bit more all over the place (myself)

You mentioned it being a bit scary jumping into a new sequencer - well, firstly you are starting early in the year which is a good start.  I started using Xlights last year around June/July having come from LSP and before that, LOR and without a doubt, Xlights is the most enjoyable and easy to use sequencer I have experienced (can't speak for HLS or Vixen as I haven't used those). You will be fine - you have tons of time to learn and great access via this forum to pick the brains of the clever people who write this software.

[Traneman]

Wow, Thanks for all the suggestions,tips and encouragement.
I have all my models setup and started a sequence.

The last couple of nights I have been playing with different effects  just to see what they do and how they look.

I do want to say that with all the support I feel much more comfortable now.

I will be noting everyone's suggestions and incorporate them in my sequencing technique.

Thanks again.

When I get something sequenced I will post it,hopefully in a couple of weeks.

[jnealand]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread.  I used the print page and created a pdf to save on my PC.  notice that everyone says listen to the music over and over.  Also look at lots of posted videos that use xlights to see the kind of effects you like and want to learn how to mimic.

Best of luck

[Traneman]

Well as you can see I am watching this thread to learn as much as I can. When you say 'I use print page to make a pdf" what exactly are you doing? What are you printing ?

Thank you and I hope everyone keeps the ideas coming.

[bravado67]

A lot of the music I have I used last year with LOR's pre-sequenced shows. Then I got into SuperStar and its random making shows. I didn't have time to learn since I started mid November. Now, I plan to sequence everything from scratch because xLights makes it easier to do so with instant playback of whatever I can imagine.

My style for sequencing, so far, is to listen to the song once and imagine what it might look like if I were telling a story to the music. I make note of rhythms and intensity. I love ostinatos, or repeating notes, melodies or phrases that I can isolate with props. And sometimes playing over the bar is really cool. By that I mean having effects not always beginning and ending on the beat.  I think about textures I can use and how it might feel when watched. Then I start playing with various props, effects and colors.

Copy & Paste will be you friend. Using different Timings helps me and I definitely use 1/4 speed playback for intricate isolation of notes.

Take your time and enjoy the process. We are all artists. We just don't always recognize it. 

Ron

[danj]

Jim made a good point there...    I have seen a post either here or elsewhere (doesn't really matter) that stated something like "you should like the song you are going to sequence because you are going to listen to it over and over and over again".   I totally agree with that thought.....