[ANSWERED] Switch to xlights from LOR raises questions....

[jamills6377]

Currently, my entire show/display is done with LOR equipment and software.
After seeing so much information about xlights, I have decided it is time for me to check it out. I do not plan, in the foreseeable future, to change out any of my equipment/controllers as most are relatively new.

I have recently moved to a new house - so - the entire setup will be new...so now is the perfect time to make a change, if I decide to, since nothing will work here as it did at my former house.

With that in mind I have several comments and questions that I'd like to understand before I proceed........
Here is what I currently have:
1. 99.9% of my display is done in pixels...all are LOR with their controllers attached from the factory.
2. 00.1% of my display that is standard A/C currently runs on a LOR Professional 16-channel controller.
3. 7 RGB 50-watt Flood Lights from LOR with their own built in controllers
4. Some of my RGB strings are the original LOR 50 pixel per string RGB pixels; some are the newer 100 bulbs per string RGB pixels.two strings run from each controller.
5. I have 2 - 6.5-foot RGB pixel trees that came with attached controllers from LOR.
6. There is a matrix of 24 - 50-pixel ribbons (Each ribbon has it's own attached controller) which I may not use as it will not be easily visible from the street because it must lean against the house and the house is too far away from the street and hidden in trees. The ribbons ar zip tied to 1/2" square aluminum tubing - and may "become" something else in the future - though I find the ribbons a bit too delicate for possible use at the new location due to much higher winds here than in the city where I was before.
7. I have a flat "tree matrix" made from LOR RGB Ribbons (Each ribbon has it's own attached controller) - think of it as a flattened 180-degree tree - there are 9 - 50-pixel ribbons on it. Again - same aluminum tubing and delicate ribbons issues.

Questions:
1. Can I put all of those lighting items into xlights directly with no hardware modifications?
2. Does the lights software use the same USB RS-485 (I think that's the correct terminology) dongle for networking the controllers/lights to the PC?
3. I have currently used 7 individual networks on the LOR system in order to drive all of the complex lighting patterns, with no lag ... will I still need to follow that network layout?
4. I do not intend to "translate" any of my existing LOR sequences...but will be redoing all the songs in xlights should I make the change...will all of my existing "thinking" about programming have to be scrapped and a new "language" learned?

Thanks in advance for any and all help you folks might give me.

[Gilrock]

Well you say you don't plan to change any hardware so I guess you are stuck with that 7 network setup.  That's what is sad about what LOR has created.  It took you 7 networks to run something that can be done on one network with E1.31.  You didn't say what LOR pixel controllers you use.  Hopefully not the Pixie's because those are the worst.  I bought a Pixie just to get it running in xLights.  I reverse engineered the LOR protocol somewhat.  I didn't work out every transaction type but enough to improve the performance of xLights with the LOR USB networks.  The performance you get depends on the complexity of the data in the effect.  The whole way LOR tries to speed up the slow interface is by finding common channels that are receiving the same color.  So if you created an effect in LOR where every channel changes every frame and every channel has a different color I guarantee you that it will lag on your setup.  With E1.31 it doesn't matter because it sends all the channels data every frame because its using high speed Ethernet.  LOR also has the enhanced protocol that tries to improve the lag by combining similar effects into a command and then specifying the controllers to receive the data.  I didn't try to implement the enhanced protocol.  It's just too easy to switch over to an E1.31 network for it to be worth that trouble.  So I can't guarantee you can run the exact same number of channels without lag because I had to reverse engineer an unpublished protocol so it's not perfect.  I still run a few LOR 16 channel AC Pro controllers but I use the DMX outputs of a F16v2/3.

[jamills6377]

OK - so if I read this correctly..........E1.31 is what I would use INSTEAD of the RS-485?
By not changing hardware, I meant I didn't want to have to replace all of my many controllers and pixel strings....if it means dropping the dongles (or whatever you call the USB adapter thingys) that would be OK as I can't imagine that would be an expensive change - UNLESS it means I have to change all of the controllers out.

My intent, if I were to change, would be to run the LOR hardware all with lights protocols and networking.
So I guess my real question is...can that be done?

[jamills6377]

And I just looked them up...the 100 bulb strings do come with a Pixie 2 controller on them.
The two pixel tree are on a Pixie 8 controller.
The 50-watt floods say they can run standard DMX512 universe (if that helps).
As they are no longer sold (on their website), I am not sure what controller is on the older 50 bulb strings.

[Gilrock]

You would look for an E1.31 bridge which can receive the E1.31 packets and send them out serial DMX outputs.  I'm not sure which Pixie controllers support DMX.  Their manual mentions 1st and 2nd generation Pixies and states that only the Pixie2D and Pixie4D support DMX but they don't say which generation.

[jamills6377]

I guess I"m still a tiny bit confused.....so E1.31 is not DMX which is also not RS-485...I really am not very familiar with all of this stuff - I just plug in the LOR stuff and sequence it and it works.
Hate to sound so stupid - trying to learn about it.

[jamills6377]

OR....  with all the LOR hardware that I have, should I just sequence in lights and translate/transfer it to LOR to run my show? Or is that more trouble than it's worth?

I guess, I'm assuming that to switch out controllers for these pixel strings would be way too expensive - but maybe that is a bad assumption, too.

[Ebuechner]

You certainly wouldn't be the first one to move from Lor to xlights.
I did it a few years ago and I couldn't be happier.
A few people have sold there Lor Pixies and other Lor pixel related equipment and used the money towards a falcon controller to run their pixels  and simplify their life. Some people have even ended up money ahead in the transition.
Most of Lor A/C controllers will run off of DMX which could be run off of a falcon controller.

[jamills6377]

So - it would seem that I should be looking into what a Falcon Controller is? And reading up on that?
Is that my only choice? Should I be considering anything else?
ANS, more importantly, will all of my 5V and 12v pixel bulbs and ribbons work on that new controller?

[Ebuechner]

Look into the Falcon controller, it can run all of your pixels both 5 volt and 12 volt and output DMX.
Would I consider anything else? Short answer no.
The new Falcon controllers are going to give you the most for your money out of all of the controllers that are available and you'll get the most amount of support in this group.

[jamills6377]

I guess I better get to studying up on the Falcons then!
Thanks!

[keithsw1111]

Given the size and complexity of your setup and your technical understanding you are going to need someone you can talk to ... not just the forums.

I suggest you join the xLights official support group Facebook page and post your location and ask if there is any one nearby.

I also suggest you make some time to attend the regular zoom sessions on a Wednesday evening. It may take some courage but ask some questions. There are lots of people on that call that will help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gilrock]

I guess I"m still a tiny bit confused.....so E1.31 is not DMX which is also not RS-485...I really am not very familiar with all of this stuff - I just plug in the LOR stuff and sequence it and it works.
Hate to sound so stupid - trying to learn about it.

So E1.31 is what I'd call DMX over Ethernet.  It packages DMX data into Ethernet packets so you get Gigabit transfer speeds instead of 512K that you get on RS-485.  DMX is a different wiring scheme and just uses 3 wires.  So what you need is something that can receive the E1.31 packets and convert it into DMX packets so it's a bridge between two different electrical standards.  LOR running over RS-485 is very similar to DMX its just that they decided to swap the data wires and make the protocol proprietary.  Their protocol made sense for AC controllers because they just bit packed the channel data but for pixel data its not very efficient at all.  When I finally switched over I was running 2 LOR networks and didn't think I had any lag.  After I switched I noticed improvements in the effects and realized I had been lagging all along and didn't know it and I was only running 3 AC controllers, 5 CCRs, and a 12x50 ribbon tree.

A lot of us love the Falcon controllers and are friends with Dave Pitts who designed and sells them.  I have about 7 of them now.  I don't fully utilize my controllers but they are spread out all over the yard.

[jamills6377]

Thanks for that brief tutorial - I understand!

I had to break mine down into 7 networks to get rid of all the lag in my setup.....so I'm ready for something more efficient!!!

[Ebuechner]

Keep looking at the falcon and learning about the E1.31 and DMX, and if you still need more DMX outputs to run the controllers you have, I have something that might help.
I have 3 DIY LED Express 6 Port Bridge controllers that I don't use anymore.
These controllers take a E1.31 input and then can output to six different rj45 DMX outputs.
I'm just mentioning this as a option if you need it.